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| Thread ID: 68224 | 2006-04-21 21:06:00 | Understanding China. | Cicero (40) | PC World Chat |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 448266 | 2006-04-21 21:06:00 | Good article by Boris. www.spectator.co.uk |
Cicero (40) | ||
| 448267 | 2006-04-22 01:31:00 | Well one point the article certainly highlights - decades of political oppression, human rights abuses, and the crushing of individual spirit has certainly created the China of today. At what cost has this "success" been achieved - how many innocent lives have been lost to the communist/cultural revolutions - how much irreversable damage has been caused to the environment? While on the surface China may seem stable and embracing capitalism, one cannot forget the continuing human rights abuses which occur. Out of those reporters/academics interviewed while IN China, who in their right mind would speak out against the government - given the actions taken against such people. Fear of arrest, "re-education through labour" - "rehabilitation" as they call it, surely is threat enough to make people praise the government in any setting. (More info here: web.amnesty.org) If anything, this article makes me think China is more and more like George Orwell's book Nineteen-Eighty-Four. |
somebody (208) | ||
| 448268 | 2006-04-22 04:26:00 | Yes. a good article by western standards..........but......... There is always a but..... Maybe democracy is not a good way of governing, ie controlling, over 1,500,000.000 people? And then as ever we have to go back in history, to see how a nation has been shaped...... Most readers here will know about the Japanese invasion of China in the 30s, the massacre of Nanking (another conspiracy theory, according to the Nips, it never happened), the conflict between corrupt Chinese Nationlists, Chiang Kai-shek and his family on the one hand and the communists led by Mao on the other. But lets us go back much further, to the most disgraceful period in European and British history..... " The Opium War, also called the Anglo-Chinese War, was the most humiliating defeat China ever suffered. In European history, it is perhaps the most sordid, base, and vicious event in European history, possibly, just possibly, overshadowed by the excesses of the Third Reich in the twentieth century. " www.wsu.edu " When China was defeated by Japan in 1895, European powers responded with a policy they called, " carving up the Chinese melon. " Following the partitioning of Africa among European powers, they turned their sights to what they saw as a terminally weak Chinese government. European powers and America began to scramble for what was called " spheres of interest. " These spheres of interest involved holding leases for all railway and commercial privileges in various regions. The Russians got Port Arthur, the British got the New Territories around Hong Kong, the Germans got a leasehold in Shantung, and the Americans got nothing. Concentrating largely on the Philipines and Guam, the Americans had missed the Chinese boat and so insisted on an " open door " policy in China in which commercial opportunities were equally available to all European powers and the political and territorial integrity of China remained untouched. " www.wsu.edu Edit: Lets add a link to the rise of modern China, and Sun Yat Sen www.wsu.edu |
Terry Porritt (14) | ||
| 448269 | 2006-04-22 05:44:00 | No doubt about it,we Europeans are the baddies. Strange that there are no lines of people wanting to get into Africa, China and the like. And Mao,s little effort must match the opium wars +,and they were his own people. There are some jaundiced views out there. |
Cicero (40) | ||
| 448270 | 2006-04-22 05:47:00 | I havent read it yet, But for Japan to invade China and KICK there arse, they get the official SUPER BALLS award. | Metla (12) | ||
| 448271 | 2006-04-22 06:21:00 | No doubt about it,we Europeans are the baddies. Strange that there are no lines of people wanting to get into Africa, China and the like. And Mao,s little effort must match the opium wars +,and they were his own people. There are some jaundiced views out there. History Cicero, history, written by a (jaundiced???) American University, unpalatable as it may be to western sensitivities who think they have never done any wrong, and are superior to all wogs :) . What the Chinese do to themselves is one thing, but let's not forget "our" part in the picture, history helps to put national behaviours into perspective. Edit: the story the the corrupt Soong family, Madame Chiang Kai shek was one makes for interesting reading and some understanding of modern China www.amazon.com Then to end on a tune, Chinatown (www.redhotjazz.com), Red Nichols in 1929 |
Terry Porritt (14) | ||
| 448272 | 2006-04-22 07:04:00 | History Cicero, history, written by a (jaundiced???) American University, unpalatable as it may be to western sensitivities who think they have never done any wrong, and are superior to all wogs :) . What the Chinese do to themselves is one thing, but let's not forget "our" part in the picture, history helps to put national behaviours into perspective . Edit: the story the the corrupt Soong family, Madame Chiang Kai shek was one makes for interesting reading and some understanding of modern China . amazon . com/gp/product/0060913185/ref=pd_sim_b_5/104-7370027-4399122?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155" target="_blank">www . amazon . com Then to end on a tune, Chinatown ( . redhotjazz . com/songs/nichols/ChinatownMyChinatown . ram" target="_blank">www . redhotjazz . com), Red Nichols in 1929 History indeed,the article was about the thinking today,not what dastardly deeds that had been done in the past . Wrotten things were done in India,the fact remains that today it is a democracy,thanks to the English . You must try to look on the bright side T . I think that is a cue for a song . |
Cicero (40) | ||
| 448273 | 2006-04-22 07:13:00 | Yes, but the point I'm trying to make is about explaining why from a historical point of view, Boris found the Chinese he talked to more or less happy with their lot, and why they didn't want democracy as preached to them by the west. What happened 100+ years ago is very revelant indeed to the situation in China today. Countries ignore history at their peril, as Bush is finding to his cost. |
Terry Porritt (14) | ||
| 448274 | 2006-04-22 07:43:00 | I don't think their comments arose out of history,simply the need to run the show as it is for the foreseeable future,their culture being what it is. I go along with-"Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It",but I don't think that is the point that arose out of Boris;s article. To many don't thinks,sorry. |
Cicero (40) | ||
| 448275 | 2006-04-23 04:30:00 | Having a very good friend who is Bulgarian, and the stories he tells me all the time about life there behind the Iron Curtain, makes me wonder if the application of that sort of logic would not also fit the Chinese situation. "While we lived as Communists," he says, "we didn't realize how miserable we were. We had long lines for beer, toilet paper, meat and of course bread. Standing on a line never was a sure thing; the product would change sometime three or four times while we waited on line, and what had been a line for, say, shoes, turned into a line for light bulbs." Continuing: "Once the Russian bear died a quick coup (went bankrupt against the spending power of the US/England) , we then got to know how miserable we now were: accent on 'now'. Knowing what we were missing while we were missing it was just a part of life; missing it now after we know about federalism and supply-demand economics, we realize that we were happier before." "Sure, we have unlimited amounts of toilet paper, but we cannot afford it". The average salary in Bulgaria is about $100US/month. Medicine is now not free, nor is dental care. Surgeries are of course, always free. Housing is not provided for loyal factory workers, and owning a car is the privilege of the ruling Bulgarian Mafia...only. Sounds kinda like a Chinese firedrill. |
SurferJoe46 (51) | ||
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