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Thread ID: 68224	2006-04-21 21:06:00	Understanding China.	Cicero (40)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
448286	2006-04-24 23:34:00	$2 for 4 litres? Damn thats cheap,we are nearly at $2 for a litre. How did you arrive at the figure? by my calculations, they are paying NZ$1.68 per litre	Greven (91)
448287	2006-04-24 23:58:00	How did you arrive at the figure? by my calculations, they are paying NZ$1.68 per litre That's what I get too, based on 1NZ$=63 US cents, and 1US gallon = 3.785 litres	Terry Porritt (14)
448288	2006-04-25 00:22:00	Joe, yes the "Wetbacks" have been causing some consternation for some time I gather. Is it true that many businesses rely on illegals for cheap labour, picking, stacking shelves, etc, and that there is a tacit agreement between the US and Mexico that takes this and trade into account? Open cast mined Canadian oil is the happening thing at the mo, isn't it? Big, big reverves but locked up in the soils/sands up chilly north. Lots of Texans are now buddying up to Canadians, could a Texan ever get into fur hats? Lots of Canadians are replacing their shoulder chips with smug arrogance :lol: Are ten gallon hats pratical in Canada.	Murray P (44)
448289	2006-04-25 03:23:00	How did you arrive at the figure? by my calculations, they are paying NZ$1.68 per litre This is why I was awarded the certificate in Skilled debatingnessnessness....I converted gallons to Litres, then rounded the figure up to 4 litres per gallon, And I completely ignorered the conversion into NZ dollars. Any futher questions, please consult my certification, Im expecting a new one that covers fudging the numbers...... :D	Metla (12)
448290	2006-04-25 03:48:00	Joe, yes the "Wetbacks" have been causing some consternation for some time I gather . Is it true that many businesses rely on illegals for cheap labour, picking, stacking shelves, etc, and that there is a tacit agreement between the US and Mexico that takes this and trade into account? Open cast mined Canadian oil is the happening thing at the mo, isn't it? Big, big reverves but locked up in the soils/sands up chilly north . Lots of Texans are now buddying up to Canadians, could a Texan ever get into fur hats? Lots of Canadians are replacing their shoulder chips with smug arrogance :lol: Are ten gallon hats pratical in Canada . Here's the problem and maybe some of the underlying reasons for things going as the are . . . according to me . To work in the US, one needs a Social Security card as a form of identification for such things as income tax withholding from wages, social security retirement and disability funds for old age witholding, state tax witholding, local taxes and fees, State Disability Insurance fund (50% paid by employee, 50% paid by employer), and whatever new fees they can withhold from the payroll . Each paycheck had about 40% to 55% removed off the top before an employee gets the rest . Here's where it gets interesting if you are still with me . . . . . . . . . On the Federal tax level, if you earn a certain amount and have a certain number of dependants (yourself as #1, wife as #2, children up to #7 from that point on), and you earned below a certain threshold, you got a nice refund from the Internal Revenue Service at the time you files your tax report . On the State level, you got the same consideration, add a renter's rebate, certain municipal refunds and and over-witheld amounts were cheerfully refunded . On the local level (if there IS one) the same considerations too . . . a little more restrictive though . OK . . . now the kick . . . . . . . . If an "illegal" alien offers phoney certificates (driver's license, Social Security card, State or local identification etc, they could be employed as the law does not allow the employer to ask for proof of authenticity of the documents . . that's illegal on the basis of infringing upon the rights of the employed person as to their legality in the US . . . . . (sigh) BUT . . . when time came to file for the refunds normally due to a real citizen with real documents, the illegal person, having counterfit documents cannot file or they would be found out and deported . Now, ask yourself . . . where's all the money that's not refunded going? That adds up to millions and millions every year . . . but we never hear of the IRS complaining that they have too much money and nobody to give it to . . . ditto for the State or local governments either . See? It's not the "cheap labor" that is the mitigating factor here . . . somebody's getting very fat on all this unclaimed money . The Bracero Act is long gone . . . it was a way of licensing Mexican Nationals as employees for a year or a season as crop workers . It died a horrible death when it was found that employers were charging for water, restrooms and rent to sleep in the fields where they picked or cultivated the crops all day . Abuse was rampant and many Braceros died for lack of humane treatment . Follow the paper trail . . it ain't cheap labor . . . it's ill-gotten monies that drive the wheels of this problem . Do you think the US military could NOT totally secure the border . . . if they WERE ORDERED TO? It would be very easy . . . not even a K-rat would get thru . (K-rats are another story all together) .	SurferJoe46 (51)
448291	2006-04-25 04:10:00	$2 for 4 litres? Damn thats cheap,we are nearly at $2 for a litre . OK Metla . . . get your sharpest pencil out and figger this . . . . UP to about 3 weeks ago we were paying about $2 . 00/gallon for gas, now $4 . 00 . . Last year, we paid about $1 . 80/gallon for gas . The year before we paid about $1 . 45US/gallon for gas . Diesel is a true rip-off for a waste product from making gasoline . . and it is about $1 . 00US/gallon more than gasoline . . . imagine that! Propane is about $4 . 00US/gallon too, unless you have it delivered to your home . . . . . then add Department Of Transportation fees to it . . . about another $2 . 50US/gallon . DOT taxes are added if the fuel is delivered by motor carrier even if the propane is for heating and cooking, where they said the tax would not be applied! . We cannot burn coal, and there are smog days when we cannot use fireplaces that burn wood or pelletized fuel . This rise in price is just wrong . We travel about (another pencil test for you here) 70 miles one way to our jobs, and have to travel about 8-10 miles for "local" shopping round trip . We drive everywhere . . . no joke . . but things are so spread out here that it's a necessity, not always for fun . Local busses (a joke) run about every 3 or 4 hours, if at all, and less after dark or before sunrise, never on Sunday and 1/2 the regular schedule on Saturday . Transfers from one bus to another to go a different direction cost extra money . . . crossing a county line costs more (I go thru 3 counties most of the time when I was working . . . and busses do not pick you up at a convenient place/time, nor leave you at a convenient place/time either) . You require personal transportation at both ends of the bus run . . getting to a bus stop or from the bus stop to place of employment . Trains run on good schedules, but in very limited access stations . Ya gotta get to and from the station . . and that means about another 10 miles at each end if you are fortunate . The nearest train station to me as I sit here is about 40 miles away in Riverside, but that would be good if I worked in LA . . . about 120 miles further on down the line . The nearest airport with any airline/passenger/size/capacity is about 35 miles to Ontario International, 150 to LAX, 55 to PalmSprings Airport, 300 to Phoenix, 135 to San Diego . See? See what I mean? We are too spread out to appreciate mass transport or the new cost of fuels . Watch and see the next Great Depression hit here first .	SurferJoe46 (51)
448292	2006-04-25 04:26:00	To be honest, No skin off my nose what anything costs in the USA, yesterday, today, tommorow. Nor do I care how many people go without jobs in any depression,nor how many people make money off immigrants. Perhaps the 500 billion spent on killing people in the middle east should have been spent elsewhere.	Metla (12)
448293	2006-04-25 04:48:00	I wish china ran democracy but I doubt it will ever happen . Too many people in china . Its very difficult to change the system You are using tunnel vision to make statements about China and democracy . Many Western countries including the most prominent one do not have true democracy . Americans get a selection of rich powerful men to choose from at each presidential election, often backed by Oil company's and defence contractors (or subsidery companies) . The candidates make back room deals with private companies to secure funds and backing . Is this Democracy? really? Who really runs the West and its economies? the answer is closer linked to Oil, money, power and good old fashion human greed than fairly democratically elected leaders . The average citizen in the West is becoming more ignorant and less caring about what is really going on in the world, its far easier to believe the crap they show on CNN each night - Evil China, Evil Terrorism, Evil Iran, Evil North Korea, God blessed Beacon of hope & Democracy United States/England . . . . . Thats the stuff we want to hear so the media keep bringing it! lol I wonder who Aliens would blame more for the worlds problems, would it be the 20% with 80% of the worlds wealth or the 80% with only 20% of the worlds wealth .	Battleneter (60)
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