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| Thread ID: 68224 | 2006-04-21 21:06:00 | Understanding China. | Cicero (40) | PC World Chat |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 448276 | 2006-04-23 15:23:00 | Pretty hard for china become democratic .China history is based on Kings and queens which carries on from dynasty to dynasty.After the last emperor tongzhi communism took over and the system is still the same.The power at the top controls the people at the bottum where they control the bottum further and so on.Feudalism. Apparently Communism is a brilliant idea because everyone will keep equal fair but this is not the case.People who high up the hierachy are corrupted and greedy. There are lots of corruption up in china at the moment. I'm better off living in hk where it's kinda safe:) Even though I am chinese.There's a difference between us people in hk and the people in China. It's quite sad that britain left in 1997 as they controlled hk quite well Base in the history japan defeated the british and ceased hong kong for a bit.I think I heard from my father that my one of my great grand parent was kidnapped and tortured.The japanese was very ruthless in those days.Raped,tortue with no moral at all.Japan will never be able to have an army till this day the japanese have something called a defence force. China is alot better now.Did ya know that back like 20 years ago.If you were to go to the bank and withdraw money the government had to approve it?If you were to buy say furniture the government had to approve it? If you wanted to start business there you had to have a person who is currently a chinese resident in china who is willing to be your partner to setup the business. Now china is a bit more opened now allowing other people to tap into their economy but its very hard starting a business in there.If you have money you can do anything. Not all chinese people are bad.Some are quite nice but quite hard to find these days or maybe im not looking hard enough.lol |
Ninjabear (2948) | ||
| 448277 | 2006-04-24 01:18:00 | I have the greatest amount of respect for the Chinese people . . . . . . I visited Hong Kong and Kowloon returning from VietNam in 1970 . The time I spent there in China was the greatest experience in hospitality I ever had . First, the people didn't hate me because I was an American . I was treated with utmost respect and honor . Foods were brought to me by people I met on the back streets in the off-tourist areas I visited . I loved the people who actually came to see me and I took many pictures of them as my reward . The streets were spotlessly clean; each home or store that had a street entrance/exit washed and swept their front areas to the other side of the street by the people twice a day . The "noodle man" came around many times it seemed each day with many bowls balanced on his head and a long staff with a hook to deliver the foods to homes on upper levels from the street . There were street musicians and small children who were not afraid of the tall US Navy sailors . We towered over them all by at least 12 inches, maybe a lot more . The Hong Kong trolleys were a treat . . . 10 cent Hong Kong (about . 003 cents US) would get you a ride all day long to any place the trolley went . A Hong Kong dollar weighed so much that you could only carry a few of them in your pocket or you walked crooked from all the weight . We weren't allowed to bring US currency on shore . . . the copper in our pennies was worth more than the coin itself, as the Red Chinese army wanted the copper for munitions . I actually cried when I was here in the US and I saw the Tiannamin Square revolt . . . I grew to love the people who didn't hate me for being an ugly American . I had meals at some of their homes, looked at some of their artwork and took home some of the Chinese pictures of Heaven with the long grass and the white egrets and the original story of Mai Lin, the girl who went to become a warrior having been changed into a boy to bring blessings to her father's name and family . I gave these artworks to a friend here in California who owns a Chinese restaurant, where they are displayed on the walls as emblems of things that Chairman Mau would not have allowed to exist . Tai Pek and Honshu were wonderful and made a very lasting impression on me, as did the fields I rode horses thru on my way to the Great Wall, where I spent a peaceful night, riding back to town the next day . My ride was lengthened by the people I met on the way, and even with the language barrior, they all smiled and waved and I met quite a few students who spoke very good English . We talked about cabbages and kings, if you get my drift . We all were enriched by the experience, I hope . . . but at least I was . I hope it goes well with China in the years to come . . . the people certainly deserve applause and consideration for all the years of strife and denial of humane treatment . Do they even know they were under such strict discipline; or did they think this is just the way life is? Wonderful people . I hope I spelled all the Chinese words correctly . . correct me James . |
SurferJoe46 (51) | ||
| 448278 | 2006-04-24 10:23:00 | Well one point the article certainly highlights - decades of political oppression, human rights abuses, and the crushing of individual spirit has certainly created the China of today. At what cost has this "success" been achieved - how many innocent lives have been lost to the communist/cultural revolutions - how much irreversable damage has been caused to the environment? While on the surface China may seem stable and embracing capitalism, one cannot forget the continuing human rights abuses which occur. Out of those reporters/academics interviewed while IN China, who in their right mind would speak out against the government - given the actions taken against such people. Fear of arrest, "re-education through labour" - "rehabilitation" as they call it, surely is threat enough to make people praise the government in any setting. (More info here: web.amnesty.org) If anything, this article makes me think China is more and more like George Orwell's book Nineteen-Eighty-Four. To keep this short understanding China is all about world perspective. You talk about human rights, have you heard of "Guantanamo Bay"?, its illegal and unjust by western standards just because the US government "SAY" they might be terrorist. What if China was doing exactly the same RIGHT NOW and they are so we call it HUMAN RIGHT ABUSES. What the HELL is the difference? We trust one government but not the other? blind trust? America has only had true democracy (term used lightly as MEN from Powerful rich family's only seem to ever become president) since the 60's when blacks were officially recognised as equal by all American states, China has some way to go but are they really hugely behind? America and much or Europe was built of Slavery not that long ago, how dare we judge China only decades later! Perspective!! |
Battleneter (60) | ||
| 448279 | 2006-04-24 10:49:00 | Wonderful people . I hope I spelled all the Chinese words correctly . . correct me James . I am afraid you have got to ask Ninjabear for correction (or you were not refering me?) . I am a Malaysian-Chinese who hasn't been to Hong Kong nor China before . One thing I am pretty mad about China is their determination to recombine with Taiwan, either through hook or crook . Taiwan is much more mature and open minded than China, in terms of its democracy, freedom of speech and its research and development . Taiwan also has a pretty healthy economic growth last year, which is around 4 - 5%, I think . It is one of the world's top LCD, Plasma TV maker . On the other hand, China 's huge economic growth is based on the violation of human rights . Labour & factory workers receive only a small amount of income per month . (to be continued) It would be great if Steve_L could share his experience of travelling around East Asia countries :) |
Renmoo (66) | ||
| 448280 | 2006-04-24 11:50:00 | One thing I am pretty mad about China is their determination to recombine with Taiwan, either through hook or crook. Taiwan is much more mature and open minded than China, in terms of its democracy, freedom of speech and its research and development. Taiwan also has a pretty healthy economic growth last year, which is around 4 - 5%, I think. It is one of the world's top LCD, Plasma TV maker. Absolutely. Given that we as a country (NZ) like to think we stand for democracy, human rights, and freedom of speech, I find it odd that have jumped on the "One China" bandwagon (in terms of what the government is doing), and allowing China into bullying us into not recognising one of the most successful democracies in Asia. Furthermore, allowing the prosepct of a FTA (of more benefit to China than to us) to allow us to disregard China's occupation of Tibet, and sweep China's human rights breaches under the carpet to me is absolutely ridiculous, given our strong political stands on issues like being Nuclear Free, and allowing women to vote. George Bush was quoted earlier this year saying that China should follow the example set by Taiwan, and embrace democracy and respect for human rights. Taiwan wasn't always democratic - in fact, it was a military dicatorship for a period of time - but that hasn't stopped it from becoming democratic, and the military dictatorship didn't mean that they had to commit the sort of persecution and blatant human rights abuses occuring in China now. Battleneter - While no country is perfect, certain nations should absolutely be able to do better than what they're doing now. I completely agree with you that human rights abuses occur elsewhere - something else to add to the list is CIA abductions to rogue countries for "enhanced interrogation". Likewise, they too should be combatted - USA's abuses of human rights in Guantanamo bay are probably the most high profile, and are just as unacceptable as China's. The fact that we turn a blind eye here doesn't mean that we should turn a blind eye elsewhere - especially when it is on a scale affecting millions of people. My view is this: If China isn't willing to embrace democracy for a while, then fine. But, just because there is not going to be democracy soon doesn't justify the need for the kind of political persecution, and disregard for human life currently occuring. Singapore has managed to achieve a stable, non-democratic existance for quite a while now, without the need for severe political oppression, severe human rights abuses, or the persecution of certain religious groups. |
somebody (208) | ||
| 448281 | 2006-04-24 12:10:00 | I wish china ran democracy but I doubt it will ever happen.Too many people in china.Its very difficult to change the system | Ninjabear (2948) | ||
| 448282 | 2006-04-24 12:21:00 | Not to mention that they all think with their wallets first. | bob_doe_nz (92) | ||
| 448283 | 2006-04-24 13:05:00 | So who are all these miserable sods called "We" that do not recognise human rights abuses perpetrated by "western democracies" as equally heinous as those by eastern, southern or northern non-demoracies? Simple Google Query ( . google . co . nz/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=Guantanamo+Bay+abuse&btnG=Search&meta=" target="_blank">www . google . co . nz) Ok, "We" haven't invaded the US yet, but we didn't go gallivanting into Iraq either . Besides, the US doesn't have enough oil left to justify invasion . Perspective? Precious . |
Murray P (44) | ||
| 448284 | 2006-04-24 16:21:00 | Hey . . . MURRAY_P . . . . I just figgered this out thanks to your: "Ok, "We" haven't invaded the US yet, but we didn't go gallivanting into Iraq either . Besides, the US doesn't have enough oil left to justify invasion . " . . . . . . . . . We are going thru a really heated debate here in the US about another country and it's invasion on our shores: "illegal aliens" crossing over to the US from Mexico . . so much so that there's cries from the illegals demanding their "rights" to come here no matter how, when, or why . . . . . . . The only reason this gets any air-time or press consideration at all is because of the oil they have in Mexico! There are huge, although vastly inferior sulfur-laced oil fields in Mexico, and if all the "illegals" are here getting special treatment, then it's just a matter of time until the US nationalizes Mexico's oil or makes a deal with Vincenti Fox (Mexico's President) for special "consideration" in trade for taking all their fence-hoppers . Mexico even "demands" that the US place and maintain water, shelter and food in the middle of the deserts for the "undocumented workers" as he calls them, during their trip thru the badlands so they won't die during their trip . We are also going thru a really hard time with oil/gasoline prices too . . . gas has gone up double in a few weeks now . . we are paying close to $4 . 00US/gallon here in Southern California even though the "driving season" isn't here yet . . . and, NO, we cannot afford it even in lotus-land! The East Coast of the US has fuel shortages and long lines to buy gas and long waits for diesel and heating/cooking oil and propane . Hmmm . . . looks insidious-er and insidious-er . We is being manipulated . . . . . . . . . . . methinks! Sorry for the hijack of the thread . . . just a thought . Maybe I should start a new thread on international oil/gasoline prices and such . . . . . |
SurferJoe46 (51) | ||
| 448285 | 2006-04-24 22:45:00 | $2 for 4 litres? Damn thats cheap,we are nearly at $2 for a litre. |
Metla (12) | ||
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