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Thread ID: 69176	2006-05-24 10:39:00	War Driving story on the news tonight	Greven (91)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
457380	2006-05-24 22:20:00	From another perspective and adding to pctek's comments. If you don't secure your network and some low life downloads explicit and objectionable content using your connection, who gets the blame? It's got your IP address stamped all over it. Yet another good reason to secure your network. :2cents:	Sb0h (3744)
457381	2006-05-24 22:28:00	Hi Chill*. Re the person just walking in to the unsecured house. Found a stranger in my house once, yonks ago, and the local Robert explained that she had not broken anything to get in, had not entered with the intention to steal anything, had not stolen anything, had not refused to leave when asked (apparently you start to trespass when, having entered, you refuse to leave), and much more. He seemed to think that she had done nothing wrong. Mind you, he also seemed to know her and she was away with the fairies.	Scouse (83)
457382	2006-05-25 00:01:00	The way I understand it, burglary occurs when a person breaks the "seal" on a house. This means simply opening a closed door (no matter if it is unlocked) is burglary. Walking though an open door is not a crime.	Sb0h (3744)
457383	2006-05-25 00:07:00	Hi sboh.... Burglary requires the breaking and entering with intent to commit a crime... although there is probably something else to cover the simple breaking and entering... Burglary involves unauthorised entry into a building, or unauthorised entry to part of a building. In legal terms, an unauthorised entry is counted as burglary when the aim is to commit theft, a serious assault or criminal damage, or where theft or a serious assault are committed or attempted by the person once they have entered. Fortunately, burglaries involving serious assaults are rare - most burglars are simply opportunist thieves. www.thamesvalley.police.uk/news_info/planning/police-plan-04/g.htm	Scouse (83)
457384	2006-05-25 00:32:00	if someone leaves there front door open, how do you know if they don't mind if you pop in to use their bathroom actually i've had simular situtions. a couple of times when i had a work oder for a job at a certain address, exspect i got the wrong road and the house was fully open so i went in looking for the person. they where not happy to see me. 2nd time was i had the right place and a tenant let me in only to find the job had been done and the owner never cancelled the job. the owner was extremly upset that i had been i been in the house. people can be very werid when it comes to "invasion of privacy". with pc's i know a lot of people who (usual do the old "i don't need AV or firewall etc") get massivly upset when their pc gets infected "how dare they do that to me" even they knowing had no sicurity etc. edit: btw i don't enter a customers house unless they are actually there, much to the disgust of many customers. i've had plenty of "no shows" where the customer has been out the back, at the end of the house, asleep etc which means they have another 3-4 week wait till i can get back out there. mmmm........you get abused no matter what !	tweak'e (69)
457385	2006-05-25 01:14:00	I have no idea what you are trying to say with public spectrum . Are you comparing an unsecured network to radio? Are you implying that if a network is not secured then that is classed as a public utility therefore open to everyone? Interesting view point if you are correct although I would add that this is not the intent of the provider so therefore you cannot assume available for use . This is what I read . "Accessing computer system without authorisation has a maximum two year term and applies to anyone who intentionally accesses, directly or indirectly, knowing that you are not authorised to access that computer system, or is reckless as to whether or not you are authorised" This is clear to me - there is no onus on the network adminstrator to secure the network (but of course it is a damn good idea) the act of connecting to a computer system knowing you are not authorised is a crime . I might ask my 8 yr old daughter today if it is ok for someone to access someone else's property without asking - I am sure both her and your law lecturer will come up with same answer . Ok, hypothetical situation . . . If i put a plate of biscuits (in perfect condition) on a table in the middle of a shopping complex and walk away, is it illegal for people to take a biscuit, even though there is no signs saying dont touch, or help yourself? or behind any doors or fences etc	Tricks_drummer (6408)
457386	2006-05-25 02:02:00	Hi sboh . . . . Burglary requires the breaking and entering with intent to commit a crime . . . although there is probably something else to cover the simple breaking and entering . . . Burglary involves unauthorised entry into a building, or unauthorised entry to part of a building . In legal terms, an unauthorised entry is counted as burglary when the aim is to commit theft, a serious assault or criminal damage, or where theft or a serious assault are committed or attempted by the person once they have entered . Fortunately, burglaries involving serious assaults are rare - most burglars are simply opportunist thieves . Scouse - thanks for clearing that up . :thumbs: That still leaves us with the open door scenario . But as far as the unsecured wifi goes, it's straight out theft - you're taking something that doesn't belong to you .	Sb0h (3744)
457387	2006-05-25 02:12:00	... Ok, hypothetical situation... If i put a plate of biscuits (in perfect condition) on a table in the middle of a shopping complex and walk away, is it illegal for people to take a biscuit, even though there is no signs saying dont touch, or help yourself? or behind any doors or fences etc I walked through a supermarket the other day. There were appetising looking fruits, sweets, cakes and iced buns, all in open baskets and bins. These have been presented in psychologically designed ways to tempt people to pick them up. I have an idea that if I picked up any of these items, and ate them, rather than taking them to a checvkout, I would be guilty of shoplifting.	Graham L (2)
457388	2006-05-25 02:41:00	Scouse - thanks for clearing that up . :thumbs: That still leaves us with the open door scenario . But as far as the unsecured wifi goes, it's straight out theft - you're taking something that doesn't belong to you . Is it theft? I know of a number of networks in my area which are open for public use (borg wifi) . the onus is on the owner to secure his or her wireless connection to not only prevent access, but also as a sign that it is a private connection . if i wanted to use that private connection id have to make an effort to use a packet sniffer or what not to gain access, therefore constituting "breaking and entering" or unlawful use of a connection . Remember that the 2 . 4ghz spectrum is an OPEN frequency, therefore any signals are not protected by law unless you actually try and break the encryption . also, if i connect to an open connection (to a wifi router) then am i illegally connecting to a computer system? is it even a computer system? I can understand where you are coming from via theft of data, but what if i dont snoop their files, just use their net? id like to see a successful conviction . i doubt it would happen . in fact, as far as i know it hasnt .	Tux (606)
457389	2006-05-25 03:10:00	Absolutely - but the point is that the law is written as such to protect people who do not know about securing wireless networks, especially people who aren't as computer literate as you would be pctek. The law is besides the point. Whether there are laws or not people will still do it. Piracy is illegal but how many peopple download games, movies and music? As for computer literacy I've always thought they should make the Computer Drivers License compulsory. That would eliminate all these silly people bleating after they discover its happened and blaming someone else. Like keylogging and internet banking.	pctek (84)
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