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Thread ID: 69082	2006-05-21 06:58:00	Another question for the forum sparky types	personthingy (1670)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
456589	2006-05-22 01:24:00	You're better off putting it on a lighting circuit than one that can potentially draw as much power as a HWC feed (35amps), that's why they're the only thing on that circuit. You'd also run in to trouble if your HWC is on ripple control or night rates.	Murray P (44)
456590	2006-05-22 01:27:00	Yes... ""Also... Where's this myth that a "credited electrician" actually knows what they are doing coming from? Sorry, While i know many sparky types i respect for thier standards, i also i know too many "credited sparkys" that i wouldn't trust to change a light bulb."" But it is the Electrical Certificate of Compliance issued by the said sparky, complete with number, job description his name, his registration number, etc., which the insurance company will be looking to trace if there is the slightest suggestion that a fire has an electrical cause. I don't care if he really knows his stuff. As long as he has a registration number on my certificate.	Scouse (83)
456591	2006-05-22 01:33:00	If the lights are RCD protected, I am not aware of any part of AS/NZS 3000:2000 ("The Wiring Rules") that would prohibit the connection of a heated towel rail. Afterall, you can connect a heat/light/fan fitting to the circuit. BUT... The location of the heated towel rail must be in the correct "Zone" and have the appropriate IP rating as detailed in the Standard irrespective of what it's connected to. Thankyou godfather. Its a good metre and a half from the bath on the oppisite wall. All plug and lighting circuits are indeed RCD protected.	personthingy (1670)
456592	2006-05-22 01:35:00	I'm no sparky - got a cupboard lightswitch wired to a 3 point plug presently. :D But isn't there a powerpoint circuit close by? I'm having trouble imagining a house where there is lighting wiring but no convenient powerpoint feed in the same general area. That's what I've always assumed was used for towel rails.	Winston001 (3612)
456593	2006-05-22 01:51:00	I don't care if he really knows his stuff. As long as he has a registration number on my certificate.All i'll say is that i don't think we are from the same planet. On mine what matters is a job well done, safely and all that good stuff. Cert numbers don't mean **** when someones sloppy work just cost someone you love their life, allthough they will help with insurance which i couldn't give a toss about. Yes i understand that certification is there to protect us from sloppy jobs done by cowboys, (many of whom are registered sparkys.) I also understand that at the end of the day the system is far from perfect, and as a result of that i would rather trust someone i knew knew their stuff than someone with a bit of paper to say they have done the course or what ever, and now i am talking about far more than the registration of sparkies, but just about every field that requires qualification.	personthingy (1670)
456594	2006-05-22 02:10:00	""I also understand that at the end of the day the system is far from perfect, and as a result of that i would rather trust someone i knew knew their stuff than someone with a bit of paper to say they have done the course or what ever."" Just out of interest.... How would you know?	Scouse (83)
456595	2006-05-22 02:23:00	In answer to your question Scouse, Worklike attitude vs "want to get out of here and get paid" or other not give a damn attitude Reputation. Common sense. Testing knowledge (where i do know something about the field) and unlike an educational institution, i want to see if they have thought about what they are doing as opposed to checking to see if they can regurgitate what was just "taught". I've known too many sparkys who are more interested in the lunchtime joint and getting paid than making 100% sure everything they do is as safe as it can or even should be. I've even worked with sparkys who got me to check the regs for them so they can decide if they should certify some of my equipment i got them to check. I'd work with those sort for paperwork reasons, but i wouldn't get them to install a lightbulb. (see previous comments) Fortunately i don't have to work near such bozos these days, they wouldn't last a week in my field of work, but it scares me that they go on to work for reputable companies actually installing stuff.	personthingy (1670)
456596	2006-05-22 02:31:00	Here in the US where we have really tough laws, and I imagine NZ has some if not all of the same stuff . A hot water heater must have a dedicated circuit for itself . This is the same for any high amp devices . We also have to install GFCI's (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupt) in any area that has the potential for a short to ground from an ungrounded appliance or early design . . . pre 1980 I think or so . A GFCI will kill a circuit feed if there's even a very small loss of ground potential or interruption . I don't think you could electrocute yourself intentionally with one of these in the circuit no matter how hard you try . Most all newer appliances have double insulation or isolation to the outer case or skin of the device . . . this consists of a non-conductive case or cover like the outside of a power drill or toaster or portable device . These do not need a third wire to lead to ground if they pass the UL isolation test process . One GFCI can cover any circuit that passes thru it to other circuits up to the rated value of the wire . The ability to open the circuit is almost instantaneous as the GFCI is powered by the line that goes thru it, so it's constantly monitoring the line/ground parameters . These can be in the form of a single wall plug, or even installed at the power distribution panel (fuse box or circuit breaker panel) . Then there's also torte law . . . . that says that if you cause your domicile to be damaged or destroyed because you broke a building code, a law or the "spirit of the law", then your insurance company has legal grounds to walk off of the claim and not pay you for the loss . Seems to me, that under those circumstances, I'd pull another leg off the panel and heat your towels with a new circuit or just get your butler/maid to sit on them for a while to warm them up .	SurferJoe46 (51)
456597	2006-05-22 04:19:00	Not much different here Joe . What you call a GFCI we call an RCD (Residual Current Device) . If the (illegal) wiring caused a fault, the insurance will walk away . Hot Water circuits are usually a separate circuit, due to historical (or future) tariff considerations where the water heater can be on a controlled or "night only" rate . Plus there is a severe range of regulatory penalties (not frequently invoked though) for non compliant work . They are much tougher on hunting down the Tradesmen than on the general public, as far as "policing" the matter of integrity of work, to the extent that some in the trade have given up to do other things . "Double Insulation" also applies here .	godfather (25)
456598	2006-05-22 06:44:00	OK I'll stick my neck out!! No legal reason not to come off the H/W circuit, as long as the feed to the towel rail is the same size cable as the H/W feed.Then the circuit itself is still protected by the fuse, which is there to protect the cable. It would be better to come off the light circuit if you can.And a permanently wired appliance doesn't have to be on an RCD.I've actually had some towel rails trip an RCD, so had to feed them off a heater circuit in the bathroom. As to the home owner doing any wiring, no one is allowed into a switch board. And all home owner work has to be checked and certified by a registered inspector, not electrician. I can't certify any one elses work, only my own. And if you don't get it checked and certified, the insurance company mightn't pay out in case of fire.	Neil McC (178)
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