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Thread ID: 68930	2006-05-16 02:58:00	Dancing with the Stars	Antmannz (6583)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
455198	2006-05-17 06:55:00	Ah well, Ministry of Works and Development for those too young to remember, they and their predecessor, Public Works Department actually built New Zealand :thumbs: Perhaps another round of Hydro Dams. None of them have failed, so far. They also kept enenployment down. As did the P&T & NZ Rail. PJ	Poppa John (284)
455199	2006-05-19 13:29:00	Be that as it may Met, but I'd suggest you haven't experienced other than NZ roading systems. A good 300m piece of the Brisbane to Gold Coast highway has my name on it, Which is of course irrilivant as the article I referred to was in relation to NZ roads built 3 decades ago compared to todays, Not to how the Romans built theirs, And I shouldn't have to point out that materials, machinery and constuction methods have all improved tenfold over roads built back in the day of the M.O.W. Please explain why the first tar seal layer usually pot holes through to the basecourse crud within a day or two especially when wet. Simple, They dont usually pot hole, Your just reaching . The vast majority of roads hold up well to their first few days of use, Though its a hell of an acid test to subject any new construction to, And the first few hours of use by todays traffic is probally equal to a years worth of traffic 40 years ago, not only are there far more cars on the road but Trucks of much greater mass and tourqe (gee, There were near no trucks on the road 40 years ago were there, what with the restrictions in place to protect the Rail bizzo). In the event that their is a problem with the compaction (either too little but usually too much compaction, The process of compaction causes the smaller crap in the material to filter down through the material leaving the larger pieces at the top...over compacting causes the material to seperate to the point where you end up with 2 layers, the lower layer rock hard and made up of all the smallest elements, the top layer consisting of the larger pieces and pockets of air , this top layer is then impossible to compact, and will eat out in short order, Its usually caused by whomever is given the job of rolling the last trim before seal ) Anyhow,where was I, In the event that a surface does pothole it only makes sence to give it enough time for all the weakspots to come through before filling the potholes with hotmix and then applying a new seal on the road, Whats the alternative?, endlessly applying temporary fixes to potholes as they appear? A band aid on a broken road?	Metla (12)
455200	2006-05-19 23:23:00	Quote: "And I shouldn't have to point out that materials, machinery and constuction methods have all improved tenfold over roads built back in the day of the M.O.W." The crud they use now for sub-base, basecourse etc is just the same now as the crud used 60 years ago or more, eg shell-rock in Wanganui, greywacke in Wellington etc, so for materials I'd say x1 fold improvement. What has changed is that the specifications have been fancied up like TNZ M/4 for base course. As anywhere, local materials have to be used, and they will vary around the country, and will meet the specs to a greater or lesser degree. In your area, you have to make do with grotty shell-rock or andesite :) The two part chip seal, 'tar' seal, has been used since the earliest days, it has not changed. It is used for cheapness, not for strength, but it enabled sealed pavements to be built far more easily and extensively than other more expensive methods like macadam that has the sub and base courses bound with bitumen. As you say, with the vast increase of heavy trucks since deregulation, the traditional NZ pavement construction is struggling to cope. The NZ system is used in Australia and South Africa. Europe and the UK use macadam. Macadam uses crushed angular rock that mechanically locks, and is bound with bitumen. The wearing course is usually 40-50mm of rolled asphalt. Concrete was used in some parts of England during the 30s, but it never caught on, unlike North America where it is extensively used. All new surfaces I've seen in this area using the 2 part chip seal system, ever since coming to NZ 30 years ago, have pot-holed within a day or two of laying the first coat, and that is with having 30km speed limits and letting the traffic compact the chips. Also the 'tar' or bitumen chip seal is not fully waterproof, tyre pressure can force water through in the wet and lead to lamination.	Terry Porritt (14)
455201	2006-05-19 23:39:00	We have noticed where hot mix is used, that it is better for dancing than the chip method,plus better on ankles when pot holes appear.	Cicero (40)
455202	2006-05-19 23:47:00	We have noticed where hot mix is used, that it is better for dancing than the chip method,plus better on ankles when pot holes appear. Very observant :) What roads and dance floors have in common is flexibility. Dance floors are 'sprung', and New Zealand roads have a flexible pavement construction. That's why dancing on New Zealand roads is much better than on North American roads which have a rigid construction. Funny that, since most song and dance comes from America. Here is Bill "Bojangles" Robinson tap dancing his way along an American road and not Misbehavin' (www.redhotjazz.com)	Terry Porritt (14)
455203	2006-05-20 00:46:00	Quote: "And I shouldn't have to point out that materials, machinery and constuction methods have all improved tenfold over roads built back in the day of the M.O.W." The crud they use now for sub-base, basecourse etc is just the same now as the crud used 60 years ago or more, eg shell-rock in Wanganui, greywacke in Wellington etc, so for materials I'd say x1 fold improvement. What has changed is that the specifications have been fancied up like TNZ M/4 for base course. As anywhere, local materials have to be used, and they will vary around the country, and will meet the specs to a greater or lesser degree. In your area, you have to make do with grotty shell-rock or andesite :) The two part chip seal, 'tar' seal, has been used since the earliest days, it has not changed. It is used for cheapness, not for strength, but it enabled sealed pavements to be built far more easily and extensively than other more expensive methods like macadam that has the sub and base courses bound with bitumen. As you say, with the vast increase of heavy trucks since deregulation, the traditional NZ pavement construction is struggling to cope. The NZ system is used in Australia and South Africa. Europe and the UK use macadam. Macadam uses crushed angular rock that mechanically locks, and is bound with bitumen. The wearing course is usually 40-50mm of rolled asphalt. Concrete was used in some parts of England during the 30s, but it never caught on, unlike North America where it is extensively used. All new surfaces I've seen in this area using the 2 part chip seal system, ever since coming to NZ 30 years ago, have pot-holed within a day or two of laying the first coat, and that is with having 30km speed limits and letting the traffic compact the chips. Also the 'tar' or bitumen chip seal is not fully waterproof, tyre pressure can force water through in the wet and lead to lamination. Freakin hell.	Metla (12)
455204	2006-05-20 03:24:00	Metla, I presume that means you're apologising to Terry and bowing to his superior knowledge buoth in road construction and in spelling!	bonzo29 (2348)
455205	2006-05-20 04:00:00	Wait for it!	Cicero (40)
455206	2006-05-20 04:14:00	Wait for it! I'm waiting to see if my deliberate mistake is spotted!!!	bonzo29 (2348)
455207	2006-05-20 04:47:00	Metla, I presume that means you're apologising to Terry and bowing to his superior knowledge both in road construction and in spelling! It means I am once again astounded by the man, But I see no reason to apologise to him just for disagreeing, As it is he is still wrong in a number of areas, The vast majority of roads do not chew out as soon as they are used (and if they do then its usually an issue with the last layer of compaction) , And materials,method, design, and construction (including quality control) of NZ roads have all improved over the last 4 decades. All of which was mentioned in regards to the rubbish on Stuff.com. The fact that NZ roads maybe of a poorer design then elsewhere is a moot point, The first post I made in this thread is still rock solid , I made no mention of International methods. As for superior knowledge in road construction, I can't say there is any "new info" in regards to NZ roads in Terry's post, Though how he seems to know near everything is quite bizarre, Mantronic? As for spelling, Suck me *****.	Metla (12)
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