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Thread ID: 69267	2006-05-27 09:01:00	Two NZ stories not being commented on.	martynz (5445)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
458254	2006-05-28 00:49:00	No more than expected, singularly uninformed opinions, so there is no need to get heated if you disagree with some else, it's a case of the blind leading the blind :) Even having had 8 years in Land Search and Rescue, I am not able to offer any valid opinion either, my experience is bush and sub-alpine tramping. Ah, so you are not going to make assumptions yourself? But I can say none of those climbers would just have happened to have had with them the extra gear required for alpine rescue. Ah, you have made an assumption. And apparently, there have been rescues before (and after!) this terrible case, so someone somewhere must have been carrying extra gear. Or else made do with the gear that they had. If any of you have ever carried a stretcher as part of a team, over any distance and difficult terrain, belaying down waterfalls, then you would more easily imagine the difficulties magnified a hundredfold up at 30,000feet. Maybe there should be some sort of inquiry into these deaths. Then we can stop making these annoying assumptions that we said befoere that we should not be making.	vinref (6194)
458255	2006-05-28 00:56:00	From today's UK Telegraph: The 40 mountaineers who passed the dying British climber David Sharp on their way to the summit of Everest were certainly selfish, but they were also rather foolish . They failed to realise that they could have served their self-interest - as well as their consciences - better by abandoning their personal ambition to reach the summit in favour of stopping to help Mr Sharp . "Another climber reaches the top of Everest" doesn't make a downpage headline any more; even Mark Inglis, the first double amputee to climb the mountain (and who was among those who passed the dying Mr Sharp) has only aroused modest interest . Had one of the climbers tried to bring him down, he may well have failed to save Mr Sharp, but he would have been guaranteed plenty of newspaper coverage - as the case of the rescue of another climber who had originally been left for dead on Everest, proved yesterday . Now that almost all mountains have been conquered and every continent crossed, there is no market left for gritty tales of exploration . Rather the demand, as seen through Saving Private Ryan and United 93, is for tales of heroic deeds towards one's fellow man . " And to you Martynz . . . . Quote: I hadn't realised that this forum sanitisizes posts . But I'm sure you can work out what the word is . But what a piss poor forum it is then . Get real . Martynz If you don't like the forum standards then on your bike mate . If you like to drop the odd obscene or offensive word in to your general conversation, go ahead . This is not the place to show off your talents in that area . I, for one, am delighted that the sanitising process is able to delete words which I normally do not accept in general mixed company - which this is .	Scouse (83)
458256	2006-05-28 01:10:00	It's about the sort of crap Iv'e come to expect from Vinref. If you'd have read all the reports you would have realised that Sharpe was a stretcher case, he couldn't walk. Therefore it is not unreasonable to say that the other climbers would not just happen to be carrying a stretcher in their packs, let alone all the other extra gear required.	Terry Porritt (14)
458257	2006-05-28 01:14:00	It's about the sort of crap Iv'e come to expect from Vinref. If you'd have read all the reports you would have realised that Sharpe was a stretcher case, he couldn't walk. Therefore it is not unreasonable to say that the other climbers would not just happen to be carrying a stretcher in their packs, let alone all the other extra gear required. First of all, calm down Terry. No need to lose your cool and start swearing. It is unbecoming of you. And if he was a stretcher case, couldn't 40 people manhandle him down the mountain? Or tried to, at least? I once read a survivalist book that showed how to make a rudimentary stretcher out of ropes and clothing...	vinref (6194)
458258	2006-05-28 01:52:00	I believe it's fairly steep in most places . Why didn't they just give him a push? He could have been at the bottom in very little time . With probably the same chance of survival . The Telegraph seems to think that fame consists in getting your name in the newspaper .	Graham L (2)
458259	2006-05-28 02:03:00	Ok, I'll rise to the bait :) First of all you cunningly transformed the phrase "valid opinion" into "assumptions". I feel qualified to make certain assumptions based on limited experience of SAR, but not a valid opinion on whether the other climbers should or should not have tried to get Sharpe down. I made the assumption that climbers would only carry the bare minimum for their own survival at that altitude, and not extra gear to assist anyone else. My opinion for what it is worth is that only a trained rescue team with the gear could have brought him down. All climbers are not necessarily trained for rescue work, and mucking around in those conditions could be disastrous for both the patient and the "rescuers". Yes, stretchers can be improvised. In the bush, an effective stretcher can be made from two parkas and two poles through the sleeves, and stretchers have been made from poles and frame packs. Then there is the infamous "Tararua" stretcher, canvas and poles lashed together. I don't like the idea of a rope stretcher, no protection for the patient over rock, pretty useless actually. The stretchers I've seen are plastic, boat shaped in two halves that fit together, the "Furneaux-Washington" with provision for securely strapping the patient in. But then, I'm not an alpinist, so my opinions about Everest are not valid :)	Terry Porritt (14)
458260	2006-05-28 02:31:00	I was never in a Nazi concentration camp, does that mean I shouldn't have an opinion about them? Did anybody suggest that the guy with tin legs should have carried the dieing man down Everest? But he might, just might, have considered staying with him rather than buffing up his ego by completing the climb. Martynz Then what happens? We have two bodies.Who brings them down?	JJJJJ (528)
458261	2006-05-28 06:17:00	Then what happens? We have two bodies . Who brings them down? JJ* Probably no one brings them down . See here and note that this was more than 20 years ago . . . probably lots more since then: 2 Nepalese Mountaineers Die Looking for Body on Everest Published: October 29, 1984 Two experienced Nepalese climbers died on Mount Everest trying to recover the body of a German who died descending the 29,028-foot peak in 1979, the Nepalese Tourism Ministry said today . The bodies of a Nepalese police inspector, Yogendra Bahadur Thapa, 36 years old, and his guide, Ang Dorjee, 35, were found entangled in ropes Thursday, one day after they set out from the mountain's southern 26,240- foot high pass, a ministry spokesman said . The deaths of the two Nepalese, who were looking for the body of Hannelore Schmatz, raised the known number of fatalities on Mount Everest to 68 .	Scouse (83)
458262	2006-05-28 09:00:00	Most of us have no conception of what it is like in the oxygen starved air above 8000m. In essence human beings cannot survive at this height - it is a slow death. Acclimatisation isn't possible. The brain turns to mush and everything is a great effort. Take a breath, take a step. So rescue in the normal sense of the word isn't an option. Apart from the lack of equipment, it's an incredibly dangerous place, and climbers are functioning at moron level. When a rescue is achieved the injured climber has to be concious and capable of at least placing his feet. When this furore originally broke out I believed that Inglis and his party were right - and I'm still inclined to that view. However the subsequent rescue of Lincoln Hall gives pause for thought. He was also left for dead but is alive now. I can only suppose that the North Ridge gives rescuers better terrain to descend than the classic South-West Ridge. But clearly the answer that nothing could be done at 8,700m isn't true.	Winston001 (3612)
458263	2006-05-28 09:12:00	I'm amazed there seems to be an opinion out there relating to the Police trial that people aren't innocent until proven guilty (assuming they've been charged with something) . You seem to forget the three Police were acquitted of allegations in the Louise Nicholas case and from what I heard of the trial that was really the only outcome possible open to the jury given her strange evidence . Being accused twice is not evidence of guilt . We've already had one witch hunt in New Zealand in the form of Peter Ellis - who has yet to be cleared despite the overwhelming evidence now available that he didn't get a fair trial, and most likely did nothing wrong . I don't think given the kind of sentiments expressed here they'll get a fair trial if it gets that far again .	Twelvevolts (5457)
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