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Thread ID: 70248	2006-06-26 22:29:00	Its Official - there are now two Justice systems in NZ	dvm (6543)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
466531	2006-06-27 23:06:00	I'm sickened and angry about the needless deaths of these two little boys. That's bad enough but the wall of silence from the family speaks volumes about how much they really care - sod all. Let's protect ourselves, forget about the babies. I'm impressed that Pita Sharples has been plain-speaking about this. He realises that this (unfairly) reflects on all Maori and simply reinforces racial prejudice. However we cannot say a white family would have been treated differently. Everyone has the right to silence. No-one can be compelled to speak to the police. Black, white, yellow, purple, doesn't matter. Makes it tough for investigators but that's the law. What makes this case unusual is that in every previous child abuse case I can think of, family members have spoken to the police. Reluctantly maybe, but nevertheless the facts have been ascertained pretty quickly. Here there is an actual conspiracy of silence. The police might end up having to charge the parents with failing to protect their children which is a long way from murder/manslaughter. What an appalling mess	Winston001 (3612)
466532	2006-06-27 23:08:00	The police don't advertise it - for obvious reasons, but they cannot compel anyone to accompany them just for an interview . They must arrest a person on suspicion of committing a crime to get them to the station . At which point you are advised anything you say may be taken down and used in evidence etc . . . . . . . . . . And once you are charged, the police cannot question you further . But very few people know that the right to silence starts right at the beginning . You are required to give your name, address, occupation, and date of birth, but that's it . You don't have to speak to the police if you don't want to and if they don't like it, their choice is to arrest you . This means here that the family can stonewall the investigaton and someone will literally get away with murder . Just a word of warning - alcohol driving charges are an exception - you have to accompany the nice officer .	Winston001 (3612)
466533	2006-06-27 23:19:00	I\I'm impressed that Pita Sharples has been plain-speaking about this. He realises that this (unfairly) reflects on all Maori and simply reinforces racial prejudice. However we cannot say a white family would have been treated differently. Everyone has the right to silence. No-one can be compelled to speak to the police. Black, white, yellow, purple, doesn't matter. Makes it tough for investigators but that's the law. Pita Sharples is gathering political points nothing else. A white famiy would have been brought in for questioning by now. I doubt the police would have given the people that knew about it time to grieve. The police should have been onto this when the children were first taken into hospital. This is not just a maori problem though. It is throughout society, and unfortunitly maori make the numbers when it comes to the statistic's	plod (107)
466534	2006-06-28 01:37:00	I bet the killers of these two babies get the best defense lawyer that tax payer money can buy!! And whats the bet that the defense will be "I was on P bro"	paulw (1826)
466535	2006-06-28 02:38:00	Yep this is bullsheep. Arrest them all and charge them all for murder and hindering a police investigation. Let them decide who is the murderer and who is just hindering a police investigation. Should sort things out pretty quickly. Maori has everything to do with it, if it was a white NZ family things would be handled far differently.	Master_Frost (9951)
466536	2006-06-28 05:39:00	The "Enough is Enough" people are very quiet eh?	Pato (2463)
466537	2006-06-28 06:50:00	Rubberducky!, this has everything to do with the family being Maori, what r u?, blind . There is to way any other family in NZ, reguardless of race could get away with remaining silent for so long . What is wrong here is the media poking their nose in the way Susan Woods did the other day . Way out of order before they had even seen the police . That has never happened before . No consideration over the death in the family asking direct personal & even attacking questions like that . Unbelieveable! I agree it has gone to far, however, media should never be allowed to confront witnesses before enquires and arrests for too many reasons to list . I could say more but it just gets me too f**ked off and stressed out to consider our society today . My 2cents anyway	SolMiester (139)
466538	2006-06-29 00:04:00	I fail to see how the fact that they are Maori really has anything to do with this . So called "cultural sensitivity gone mad" is a load of crip . I wouldnt be surprised if this happens a lot with people from all races . It just happens that the media picked up on it and now it's a huge issue . That not to say I don't think they shouldn't speak up . Just as anybody from any race should speak up . However I don't think they are being treated better because they are Maori, we all have legal rights . In fact I'd probably say this is actually such a big story because they are Maori . Good call . We can all point to child abuse/murders being committed in white families . The guy in Dannevirke(?) who murdered his two step-daughters for example . Any family, black, white, yellow, purple, can claim the right to silence if they get a lawyer fast enough . But it has to be said that Maori do have a particular problem with family violence . The statistics show it and we can't pretend otherwise . The sad part is it becomes racial abuse instead of looking at why and what needs to be done . The real reason for the story is that twins died, making it a double tragedy . Then the family put up a brick wall, making it worse . Maybe some good can come from this terrible event . It seems that at last our political leaders are taking notice .	Winston001 (3612)
466539	2006-06-29 00:37:00	I fail to see how the fact that they are Maori really has anything to do with this. So called "cultural sensitivity gone mad" is a load of crip. I wouldnt be surprised if this happens a lot with people from all races. It just happens that the media picked up on it and now it's a huge issue. Sorry, the fact that they are Maori really has everything to do with this. The so called spokesperson for the non-cooperating group, Ani Hawke was quoted as saying that - "that Maori custom took precedence over the police investigation and that the Whanau has to be alowed to grieve. The tangata whenau came first and "our" system was here long before the tauiwi (foreigners)". This is while the police were standing back and not interferening with the "grieving process" No other ethnic group would be given this freedom. The grieving process should have happened before the babies were murdered And still two young babies remain murdered apparently without the right of redress.	dvm (6543)
466540	2006-06-29 05:21:00	Sorry, the fact that they are Maori really has everything to do with this . This is while the police were standing back and not interferening with the "grieving process" No other ethnic group would be given this freedom . The grieving process should have happened before the babies were murdered Perfectly understandable view and a fair call that a non-Maori family might not have been granted time by the police . I expect the reality is that the family simply refused to speak to the police right from the start . They had a lawyer on the scene before the babies died . The police had no choice but to accept the "grieving" excuse on the basis that they'd get co-operation after the tangi . So the police only granted time because they had no choice . They cannot compell anyone to speak to them - anyone at all . Certainly the police can ask questions, but they don't have to utter a word of reply . See earlier post .	Winston001 (3612)
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