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Thread ID: 70523	2006-07-06 06:00:00	The Missiles of July....	SurferJoe46 (51)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
469004	2006-07-07 08:20:00	You talk about dictatorships 1. The last Election in the US was basically fixed because of the issue in California, (Bush really lost every one knows it no one can do anything about it). 2 When was the last US president that didn't come from a rich powerful family?, no really, these family's are in the back pocket of big business often linked to Oil. 3. US politicians keep moving electorate lines to basically ensure results, this is just starting to come into the public eye now. Oh and how many countries has Evil China or Evil North Korea invaded in the last 50 years, wow they must be really evil! Yes I do realise the USA is the biggest dictatorship of them all, the population just doesn't know it with there heads buried in the sand and I didn't want to upset surferjoe	plod (107)
469005	2006-07-07 08:21:00	there is one thing to say about dictatorships and that is at least people of that country know where they stand, no surprises, tow the line or be shot. i wonder if anyone actually asked the people of Iraq weather they wanted to be westernisd, They have lived that way for hundreds of years and what right does any country have to force there ways and beliefs on them Actually Iraq was substantially western under Saddam. The Iraquis in recent decades have been a moderate people as compared with say, Iran which has moved back to a less tolerant society. The main problem with Iraq was it's dictator. The guy killed people. Lots of them. They are still digging up bodies.	Winston001 (3612)
469006	2006-07-07 08:32:00	Way before my time and I am not even a natural of this country but I for one am thankful of the US invasion (www.nzhistory.net.nz) of NZ.	sam m (517)
469007	2006-07-07 08:39:00	Actually Iraq was substantially western under Saddam. The Iraquis in recent decades have been a moderate people as compared with say, Iran which has moved back to a less tolerant society. The main problem with Iraq was it's dictator. The guy killed people. Lots of them. They are still digging up bodies. Do people purposely pick out the inconsistanties of my posts :( . Yes Winston I know what you saying is correct, but i have a problem of typing faster then what my brain can think and I type slowww :horrified	plod (107)
469008	2006-07-07 09:01:00	Do people purposely pick out the inconsistanties of my posts :( . Yes Winston I know what you saying is correct, but i have a problem of typing faster then what my brain can think and I type slowww :horrified No worries and I certainly didn't mean to pick on you. It seems sometimes that we forget just what was going on in Iraq under Saddam. At the same time, I recognise that the West (mainly France, UK, and US) supported Saddam Hussein for many years in the 1970s - 80s because he represented a stable regime in a turbulent geosphere. So these countries tried to control him by diplomacy rather than saying his cruelty was wrong. The result was the invasion of Kuwait. Saddam genuinely thought that the West didn't have the stomach for war and Iraq would get away with it. Bullies can and do win - but not this time.	Winston001 (3612)
469009	2006-07-08 00:30:00	NO . . I am not bothered by the statements . . . but review with me the following points made: 1 . The last Election in the US was basically fixed because of the issue in California, (Bush really lost every one knows it no one can do anything about it) . I think you're talking about the Florida chads and hangers etc . . . the little pieces of paper in the punch-out on the mechanical ballots . The biggest problem was the dead people who voted a straight Demo ticket . . . . and they weren't strong enough to push the handle down and punch thru the ballots . Being dead had something to do with it; they don't get enough exercise in the grave and their arms are too weak to vote . California was swung heavilly to the left and never went for Bush at all; Hollywood would never allow a republican to win in their state! . 2 When was the last US president that didn't come from a rich powerful family?, no really, these family's are in the back pocket of big business often linked to Oil . Well taken . . . that's about right . . . but there have been some money-nouveau, ie: The Kennedys . Silver spoon politics aside, my thought if I were a voting person, would be go with the big bucks . . . and leave the wanna-be's alone as they are just trying for a power grab and want some of the money for themselves . However, some of the presidential races don't actually have oil-type millionnaires running . . it might be steel, tobacco, manufactured goods or rubber, and don't forget bankers too . 3 . US politicians keep moving electorate lines to basically ensure results, this is just starting to come into the public eye now . Interesting you should mention "gerrymandering", a tried and old/noble technique that moves the lines of electorial bounderies . This is on a very grass-roots level, and does not truthfully cause more than a ripple in presidential elections . More: Among western democracies, only Israel and the Netherlands are not susceptible to gerrymandering in the national government, as they employ electoral systems with only one (nationwide) voting district . Other countries, such as the UK and Canada, attempt to prevent gerrymandering by having the constituency boundaries set by non-partisan organisations such as the UK's Boundary Commission . Gerrymandering is most common in countries such as the United States of America where elected politicians are responsible for drawing districts . And from the UK: An interesting, albeit unusual method of achieving the effects of gerrymandering is to attempt to move the population within the existing boundaries . This occurred in Westminster, in the United Kingdom, where the local government was controlled by the Conservative party, and the leader of the council, Dame Shirley Porter, conspired with others to implement the policy of council house sales in such a way as to shore up the Conservative vote in marginal wards by selling the houses there to people thought likely to vote Conservative . An inquiry by the district auditor found that these actions had resulted in financial loss to taxpayers, and Porter and three others were surcharged to cover the loss . Porter was accused of "disgraceful and improper gerrymandering" by district auditor John Magill . So, you see it's not just a US thing and I am not angered .	SurferJoe46 (51)
469010	2006-07-08 00:33:00	Saddam was supplied with many of his weapons by the US . In the Iraq-Iran war, a US Navy ship shot down an Iranian airliner . The captain of the ship got a medal for that days work . What happens when Libya is alleged to have supported a plane bomber, who was convicted on the basis of some very dubious evidence? Libya pays millions of dollars in blackmail . There are thousands being killed every month under the enlightened "democracy" of the new "government" of Iraq . Of course you can have democartic elections . As long as the US approves the candidates . The Palestinians had a "democratic" election . The Us doesn't like the winners . No would want a constitution and government system modelled on the US corrupt one . The way they get them is at the point of a gun . This is hardly free or "self determination" .	Graham L (2)
469011	2006-07-08 01:56:00	Oh yeeah...I see! It's the same people, same territory...BUT ONE IS BEHIND AN IMAGINARY WALL and a few minefields and sharpshooters to keep any Northerners from going South....sounds like a swell vacation spot. Tourists check in, but they don't check out! Sounds like Germany in 1989. Look what happened in 1990 (I think it was dec '90). Personally I don't trust that idiot Bush, just another war mongerer who has turned out to be just another liar. He knows he has power, he is trying to exert it over the rest of the world a la Big Brother. He is failing. However, he and his elected cronies lack brains, an important ingredient when one holds power. Sooner or later America will wake up to the fact; but it wont be for a while and it won't be till its probably too late. Right now, Americans (not to mention its Allies, namely Britain and Australia) are stuck in this cycle of paranoia and the ever churning propaganda machine taking advantage of this paranoia. <fade in Civil War by Guns 'n' Roses> Look at your young men fighting Look at your women crying Look at your young men dying The way they've always done before Look at the hate we're breeding Look at the fear we're feeding Look at the lives we're leading The way we've always done before My hands are tied The billions shift from side to side And the wars go on with brainwashed pride For the love of God and our human rights And all these things are swept aside By bloody hands time can't deny And are washed away by your genocide And history hides the lies of our civil wars ....	Myth (110)
469012	2006-07-08 08:50:00	Personally I don't trust that idiot Bush, just another war mongerer who has turned out to be just another liar . He knows he has power, he is trying to exert it over the rest of the world a la Big Brother . He is failing . However, he and his elected cronies lack brains, an important ingredient when one holds power . Sooner or later America will wake up to the fact; but it wont be for a while and it won't be till its probably too late . Right now, Americans (not to mention its Allies, namely Britain and Australia) are stuck in this cycle of paranoia and the ever churning propaganda machine taking advantage of this paranoia . Or these are the only nations which recognise the dangers of ignoring human rights abuses and are prepared to act . The world has been here before . It's called the politics of appeasement . No matter how aggressive another country's leaders are, just talk to them . Turn away from the deaths, pretend they don't happen, and trust that it'll all work out . Neville Chamberlain's trust of Adolph Hitler is the outstanding example . Really its common sense . If you let a bully have his way, he won't thank you for it . He'll simply think you are weak . Which is exactly what Hitler and Saddam thought . And they were right . As for the popular view that Bush and his cabinet are not intelligent - this is, with respect, nonsense . Just because we disagree with their foreign politics, doesn't make them thick . IMHO the problem is that many Americans (except for Joe :D ) have only a vague idea of life and culture outside the USA . They are genuinely bewildered that anyone could not like them . So its easier to think such people are bad guys and simply dismiss them . Which interestingly enough is exactly what we do when we condemn the Bush administration without trying to see their point of view .	Winston001 (3612)
469013	2006-07-08 12:40:00	You talk about dictatorships 1 . The last Election in the US was basically fixed because of the issue in California, (Bush really lost every one knows it no one can do anything about it) . You'll find plenty of Americans who disagree . But in fact the same thing has happened in New Zealand . It's because of, as Joe says, gerrymandering . The manipulation of electoral boundaries . Can still happen under MMP but less likely . 2 When was the last US president that didn't come from a rich powerful family?, no really, these family's are in the back pocket of big business often linked to Oil . Fair comment . Some presidents have come from humble backgrounds but many have wealth ( . raken . com/american_wealth/encyclopedia/comment_politics_public_office . asp" target="_blank">www . raken . com) . It seems to be accepted today that you have to be a millionaire to contest the presidency .	Winston001 (3612)
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