Forum Home
PC World Chat
Thread ID: 73596	2006-10-25 22:26:00	Hummmmmmmmmm	Morgenmuffel (187)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
494360	2006-10-26 16:21:00	All those propane tanks, and a big fire too . Sounds like a mix to be safely away from, here is probably far enough That sounds logical, but seriously we don't have any large issues with those tanks . Fires don't seem to bother them too much for some odd reason . I have found them intact and full charged after a fire . . . and for some reason I never thought that was unnatural . Most tanks are about 150 gallons . The areas around them are all cleared for a certain amount of distance . . . but it's not uncommon to have a large tree over them . . so I don't think there's any fear of explosion by the authorities . Some are enclosed in a small decorative gazebo-type thing-y . . . but never totally enclosed or underground on in an actual domicile . They are all above ground and hard plumbed into the home through steel pipes after the regulator, which has copper from the tank to it . All have hoods over the regulators and connections . Now you've got me wondering . . . . . . . hmmm . . . why don't they rupture and explode? Anyway: about the ELF The AM reception seems to be better at about 40 feet away from my home . . . and this isn't just on a home radio but also all my vehicles cannot receive KFI until I get a little way off from the driveway . I say KFI because of it's power and relative closeness from LA to here . KFI booms in all over town but goes dead at those aforementioned areas and intersections . There isn't any crossover or attempts of KFI trying to get thru the dead zones, but the rolling sound of the interference is all you can hear until you drive away from that area . The signal of KFI abruptly returns as you get out of the zone . The loss of KFI is distinct and abrupt and total . The interference is all across the AM band .	SurferJoe46 (51)
494361	2006-10-26 17:38:00	If you were to drive around town here in Hemet and San Jacinto, you'd find certain areas that are blanked out, AM-wise . I haven't plotted the areas that have the low freq hum and loss of AM signal . . . but they are wide and far apart . Thinking at this moment, I feel there is a large . . . probably 2 . 5 to 3 mile ring that has these spots in it when you can actually get to an intersection on a street . The corner of Esplanade and Sanderson is one, and again, Esplanade and Warren . . about 1 . 5 miles due West . Another site is San Jacinto Street and Ramona Expressway . Now that is about 2 . 5 miles from Esplanade and Sanderson in a ENE direction . That suggests an arc that probably goes right up to Lamb Canyon by making an extension of that arc in my mind . My home lies right on that arc, so the concurrance of AM damping is pretty easy to imagine under those directions . If I were to guess, part of that ring would go over Warren Road again at about Ramona Expressway . . . and I'll try that out tomorrow when I go for another pre-surgery physical and lab test . I can get some AM signal on the far East end of my home . . . . not good, but listenable . The static isn't a buzz . . . but a low growl that oscillates at about . 75 seconds . . . a little faster than a clock's ticking, and there is a slight rise in the tone, but not very much higher than the low basic tone . I can get my keyboard to mimic the frequency . . . BRB . . . . . It is an "A sharp" note, four octaves down from middle "C" on the keyboard . A# . . . . . . . . @ 29 . 14 hz . . . . . . or 1180 . wavelength (cm) There are people here in my area who cannot use their cellphones until they leave the neighborhood . I seriously suspect an ELF antenna . If you get midnight between you and Los Angeles . . . especially on a Winter (Northern-hemisphere designation) night, then I bet you CAN get to listen to KFI 640/AM radio . Their website is . kfi640 . com/main . html" target="_blank">www . kfi640 . com .	SurferJoe46 (51)
494362	2006-10-26 22:09:00	It's all very interesting. As I understand the ELFs used for submarine use are electromagnetic waves, not acoustic waves, then it is not surprising that they cannot be picked up with microphones. It has been reported infrequently over the years of people being able to hear broadcast transmissions in their heads, and this has been put down to the rectifying action of some teeth fillings acting like a crystal set :) So that may explain why some people can hear the ELF, and others can't. Now if the map of the world is re-plotted to show New Zealands' true and real place in the world: www.imagef1.net.nz then it is not surprising that the Yanks would have secretly installed their submarine listening systems here, as from Auckland, the whole of the Pacific can be monitored :) Years ago, before the economic reforms in New Zealand and before all the medium waveband (broadcast band) frequencies had been sold off, the broadcast band had lots of nice holes in it, with which using a suitable frame aerial design, meant that stations from Australia, across the Pacific, and even as Joe says from the US West Coast could under favourable conditions, be received here. Nowadays, every frequency is occupied by some crap station or other, and DXing is not what it used to be.	Terry Porritt (14)
494363	2006-10-27 03:50:00	The ELF submarine communication is done at about 10 kHz . They tried to put such a station in NZ once. :D The antennas are not buried. Even above ground they are horrendously inefficient as radiators because of the enormous wavelength. The transmitter power is huge, but most of it goes to heating the antenna wires. The USN has tried acoustic communication with submarines. That has been alleged to be very harmful to whales: many kilowatts of sonic and ultrasonic (not infrasonic) power to transducers in the water. If you want to couple sound to the oceans (especially to transmit "secrets"), you use transducers in the water, not buried "6-inch diameter stainless steel braided cable[s]" in residential areas. (I'd guess that that "cable" is more likely to be a braid-reinforced pipeline containing oil or gas?) And there's no way you could effectively screen large areas from MF broadcasts.	Graham L (2)
494364	2006-10-27 04:19:00	The ELF submarine communication is done at about 10 kHz . They tried to put such a station in NZ once . :D The antennas are not buried . Even above ground they are horrendously inefficient as radiators because of the enormous wavelength . The transmitter power is huge, but most of it goes to heating the antenna wires . The USN has tried acoustic communication with submarines . That has been alleged to be very harmful to whales: many kilowatts of sonic and ultrasonic (not infrasonic) power to transducers in the water . If you want to couple sound to the oceans (especially to transmit "secrets"), you use transducers in the water, not buried "6-inch diameter stainless steel braided cable[s]" in residential areas . (I'd guess that that "cable" is more likely to be a braid-reinforced pipeline containing oil or gas?) And there's no way you could effectively screen large areas from MF broadcasts . No . . I tell it like I held it . . . the braided cable hummed . . . was warm and had absolutely no marking on it . If the cable was a pipeline . . that's outta the question . . we have no oil or petroleum products/processing in this area . . . and the ambient temps never really freeze here for more than an overnight time, would mean it's not necessary to heat any oil to make it flow . We use high pressure natural gas that is always in steel, non-flex pipe, and it's well buried (12 feet minimum!) as defense against contractors and weekend gardeners . The area where I hit the cable-covered whatever it was is a propane use area . . . in that each home has it's own personal tanks and very short and direct steel pipes to the house . . . no other piping is allowed per code . Something's messing with radios and phone lines in this area . . . . Verizon knows about it and is trying to make things work in the newly built areas where the cable MIGHT be . . they have a lot of RFI-type noise on the copper . . so they are rapidly going to FIOS . Originally, mind you . . this was a riverbed . . . and there wasn't any housing here except for a dairy farm or two and a few chicken ranches . That's all changed with homes being built in flood basins and liquifaction areas . Placing an ELF antenna here was never thought to be a problem . . . the areaa was just not inhabitable anyway . . . but people messed that up and moved here for their health and to get away from the cities . This was primarily a retirement area . . . or Devil's Island, depends how you look at it . Atmospherics are not the problem, and the fact that AM radio blanks out just in certain areas is very odd . One strange thing is that I get a lot of tv interference on broadcast over-the-air signal from about (starting) 5:30 to 7:30 PM to about 2:00AM every night . I sometimes lose synch with my ISP, and cannot run online with real consistancy at all during those times . !00 feet away from here, AM radio works well . . even getting KOMA, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, another 50,000 watt station . The mobile homes here are all wooden structured . . . not the old aluminum type, so shielding is not an issue either . I might try an aluminum foil hat in the future however . Well . . . that's the way it is . . . I have work-arounds for it . . I use streaming radio links for the time I want to listen to AM radio, and I still lose synch in the early to late hours of the night . I won't live in the riverbed and won't buy a site-built home in this area . We are also on the San Andreas Earthquake Fault line which runs all the way to the Gulf Of Mexico from San Andreas, California . . . . . . . . a real rock and roll . . . someday! BTW: I believe the 10KHZ ELF freq is the carrier . . . the modulation might be in the range I suggested . . right? :blush: Oops . . . just found this out (good ol' Google!) "The frequency is shifted between 72 Hz and 80 Hz (with a center of 76 Hz) depending on whether a code of "one" or "zero" is to be transmitted" from here: . com/facts/2001/LisaWu . shtml" target="_blank">hypertextbook . com	SurferJoe46 (51)
494365	2006-10-27 04:34:00	All those propane tanks, and a big fire too. Sounds like a mix to be safely away from, here is probably far enough	R2x1 (4628)
494366	2006-10-27 23:05:00	We don't seem to have any troubles with them even in fires...they are all above ground and hard plumbed into the house via underground pipes. I have seen them after a fire and they are still undamaged. The fire codes are very explicit as to how far away from a home they are to be and the total size. They usually have about 250 gallons of liquified propane (lp) gas at approx. 85% full level.	SurferJoe46 (51)
494367	2006-10-27 23:06:00	We don't seem to have any troubles with them even in fires . . . they are all above ground and hard plumbed into the house via underground pipes . I have seen them after a fire and they are still undamaged . The fire codes are very explicit as to how far away from a home they are to be and the total size . They usually have about 250 gallons of liquified propane (lp) gas at approx . 85% full level . Hey mods: I keep on getting this message: This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between posts . Please try again in 30 seconds .	SurferJoe46 (51)
1 2