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Thread ID: 74155	2006-11-13 05:59:00	Man's home or work not his Castle.	Sweep (90)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
498722	2006-11-13 05:59:00	From the News:- --------------------------------------------------------------------- 13 November 2006 home.nzcity.co.nz Police have decided to charge Auckland gun shop worker Greg Carvell, following the shooting of man in his Penrose shop in July. The 33-year-old has been charged with possession of a firearm without lawful, proper, or sufficient purpose. The charge follows the shooting of man who entered the shop in possession of a machete. He has since been charged with assault with intent to rob. Carvell will appear in the Auckland District Court on December 6. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- What is it these days? If someone walked into Greg's shop ( which sold firearms) with a machete then I think Greg has the right to self defense. As for the charge itself, I am hoping this is a deliberate mistake by the Police prosecuter. Surely Greg has a license to sell guns I would think? It may be of course that he used one of his own weapons as easy access was obviously available. The fact that Greg did not have to go get a key to unlock a gun on display, assemble and load may be telling. What do you think?	Sweep (90)
498723	2006-11-13 06:20:00	I think it is likely that the police believe keeping a loaded .45 handgun under the counter is illegal and that issues of the right to self defence do not come into it. Do bank staff keep loaded .45 handguns in their teller draws? Why does the fact that he was running a gun shop make this any more acceptable?	Biggles (121)
498724	2006-11-13 06:26:00	This is NZ not the US. You can't just shoot someone even they are holding a machete. From what I remember of the news he didn't charge at the guy and swing the machete at him. He was shot as he walked in.	pctek (84)
498725	2006-11-13 06:28:00	why not? He won't try it again.	wotz (335)
498726	2006-11-13 07:09:00	I think it is likely that the police believe keeping a loaded .45 handgun under the counter is illegal and that issues of the right to self defence do not come into it. Do bank staff keep loaded .45 handguns in their teller draws? Why does the fact that he was running a gun shop make this any more acceptable? OK Bruce. I was not aware it was a handgun. Self defence does come into it though in my opinion. The only place I want to see a machete is out with others in the jungle or bush clearing a path. If you own a fruit and vegetable shop and I come in with a machete there is a fair chance that I did not bring the weapon to test whether it is sharp enough to cut the skin off a kumera. It is a question of perception here. If I thought my life was in danger, or the life of family or friends then I would use any means at my disposal to end the threat. If you were in the situation that Greg found himself in and knowing that you can stop this person how would YOU have acted? Would you just said, "Here's the keys." That answer would let the machete owner get away with one or more firearms. Who knows what damage would be done. Whilst I do not agree with violence in general as a method of solving problems sometimes it is the only way to go. Back in my school days about 50 years ago I was being bullied. He usually had a few mates with him. I went to the trouble of getting him on his own and a punch on the nose was sufficient. This Ex bully now lives in England and we correspond on a regular basis.	Sweep (90)
498727	2006-11-13 07:26:00	why not? He won't try it again. True. If the machete was sheathed then there probably is no cause to shoot. I disagree with having a death penalty in this country in general because of the likes of Aurther Allen Thomas and others since. However, during my lifetime I have figured out that the Justice system does not give you JUSTICE. There is usually evidence that is not admissible in a court of law and that (if admitted) may sway a Jury one way or another. If, however I ever get found with a gun in my hand and another person dead and the gun is still smoking and I actually did it then I would expect a death penalty.	Sweep (90)
498728	2006-11-13 08:14:00	If you were in the situation that Greg found himself in and knowing that you can stop this person how would YOU have acted? Would you just said, "Here's the keys." That answer would let the machete owner get away with one or more firearms. Who knows what damage would be done. Yes, it was a .45 handgun -- an extremely powerful weapon. And from what I've read he had it to hand. I don't for a moment query his right to defend himself -- I'm sure I'd try and defend myself too if I felt that any other reasonable course -- doing what the assailant says and giving him what he wants -- was not tenable. But note the guy has not been charged with assault. He's on a firearms a charge. The fact is, no matter what business he is running, he should not have been keeping a loaded .45 under the counter. I'm sure the police would say that if a robbery was attempted, he should have done as told and let the police go after the robber with the armed offenders squad. But it seems BEFORE this happened he had already made up his mind what he was going to do in such a situation, otherwise why keep such a deadly weapon ready and loaded. And that's what the cops have a problem with. The assailant in this case could just have easily got his hands on that .45. What then? Lets not confuse this with loaded arguments about "the police persecuting the victims of crime". The police are there to uphold the law, and if you found that the owner of the corner dairy was keeping a loaded .45 under the counter you'd probably want the police to do something about that. Or do we really want a society in which keeping loaded handguns around for self protection is considered the norm?	Biggles (121)
498729	2006-11-13 08:23:00	"A man walks into a gun shop with a machette..." I mean c'mon, doesn't that sound like the beginning of a bad joke? Isn't taking a knife to a (potential) gunfight making you a candidate for the Darwin Awards? This rocket scientist went in threatening harm to anyone who stood in his way- he had a machette! What if he was on P? What if he panicked? It's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six- yes, the gun should have been registered, but I'd rather risk court than being at the mercy of a nutter with a machette. The police should have give him the bollocking of his life rather than charge him.	Sick Puppy (6959)
498730	2006-11-13 09:18:00	This rocket scientist went in threatening harm to anyone who stood in his way- he had a machette! What if he was on P? What if he panicked? And what if he was on P and he got the .45 off the gunshop guy? What if he then shoots everyone in the place, then shoots whatever police turn up with the unregistered .45 semi automatic handgun the shop owner has been keeping? If you are going to run hypotheticals, they go both ways. It's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six- yes, the gun should have been registered, but I'd rather risk court than being at the mercy of a nutter with a machette. The police should have give him the bollocking of his life rather than charge him. So now the police are supposed to treat the law -- to misquote Pirates of the Caribbean -- as "more a set of guidelines"? They pull over a stolen car, find someone inside with a loaded .45. Naturally, they go up on a firearms charge. They walk into a gunshop and find the owner has a loaded .45 illegal gun under the counter. They give him a bollocking and walk away. That is not the law. And justice -- for all its faults -- is best metted out via the law rather than a constantly in flux set of personal perceptions about who "deserves" punishment and who does not.	Biggles (121)
498731	2006-11-13 10:30:00	The guy who tried to rob Greg got exactly what was coming for him. To bad he didnt get killed. One less nutter in our society. Rings true to the article on Sunday (The TV Show) about a "Parental analysis"	Cornot (10386)
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