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Thread ID: 74448	2006-11-23 00:32:00	Brash resigns	leonidas5 (2306)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
501408	2006-12-13 04:28:00	Hmmmm...........the idea is that if an economy grows, then that provides an economic cake which all citizens benefit from, simply by living within it. That doesn't mean equality of wealth but the general standard of living rises for all. There is meant to be a trickle down effect but very few have seen it. I can say after visiting India that the poor in NZ are immensely rich compared with poor Indian people. The trouble is, we live in such splendid isolation that we simply don't recognise how well-off New Zealanders are. Yes a bit of travel does make you realise what a great country this is on the whole. This leads to another problem of conventional economics - growth is the touchstone for quality of life. I believe that the world is coming up against a brick wall and "growth" will stop. Why? Simply because the planet has finite resources and we are stripping those away at an accelerating rate. Yes under present economic doctrine growth is seen to be the be all and end all but I agree that we can't carry on this way. Look at the strain growth in China is putting on copper for plumbing. A number of years ago USA accounted for 2.5% of the population (I think) and yet consumed 60% of the worlds resources. Take water - much of it is pumped out of underground aquifers which have taken thousands of years to fill. They will run dry. But worse, humans are killing the biomass of the planet faster than it can be replaced. No doubt we'll survive as a species - but there will be a lot of starvation and death in the meantime. There was a small lake in the USA a number of years ago which disappeared like a plug being pulled in a bath because so much water had been taken out of the aquifer below.	mikebartnz (21)
501409	2006-12-13 08:15:00	I would like the aquifers becoming empty confirmed,that suggests that they are not being refilled ex the mountains. Ah Tom - thus speaketh a true Cantabrian. Keep on pumping, lots of water underneath, no problem. And maybe for Canterbury that is correct - the water in some aquifers gets replenished quickly. But I'm thinking about the major Australian sources of water, the Caspian Sea where fishing boats sit in the desert, many other water sources in hot dry lands where there isn't rain to refill rivers, dams, and wells. World agriculture is now substantially based on fossil water and, just like oil, it doesn't last forever. Incidentally, how did we get here from Don Brash???	Winston001 (3612)
501410	2006-12-13 09:15:00	Ah Tom - thus speaketh a true Cantabrian. Keep on pumping, lots of water underneath, no problem......... Incidentally, how did we get here from Don Brash??? Simple, it's called "trickle down".	Terry Porritt (14)
501411	2006-12-13 19:10:00	Simple, it's called "trickle down". Which clearly proves that the trickle down theory works. With respect to aquifers elsewhere,people don't deliberately empty them,on finding the error of their ways,this can be remedied.	Cicero (40)
501412	2006-12-13 20:48:00	With respect to aquifers elsewhere,people don't deliberately empty them,on finding the error of their ways,this can be remedied. What a load of rubbish you just need to look at the big irrigation schemes down south where they are drawing large amounts of water to run dairy farms which are totally unsuitable without it. Streams are drying up and salmon are no longer to be found in some. They are doing that deliberately. In a lot of cases overseas it is not easily remedied. Take the example earlier of mine where a lake just disappeared and the Caspian Sea. You obviously can't see the wood for the trees.	mikebartnz (21)
501413	2006-12-13 22:46:00	We really have left Brash behind us now :) There does seem to be a tendency for NZ farmers to all jump together onto the same bandwagons, and then kill the goose that lays the golden egg. Kiwi fruit at one stage, goat farming, deer farming, maybe other things too that I have forgotten. Then the mass exodus of farmers from the North Island with convoys of them moving down to Southland, and now they are ruining the environment through overdoing the dairy farming, with nitrate run offs into the rivers, and nitrate seepage down into their domestic water supply wells, running the rivers dry etc. They really should practise the user pay policy, all this do as you like free market forces nonsense is giving them a free ride at the expense of "hard working New Zealanders" like Cicero and me. :) The goat farming nonsense was particularly bad, because many irresponsible "farmers" just let them run off into the wild when they gave up on it.	Terry Porritt (14)
501414	2006-12-13 23:03:00	. . . the Caspian Sea where fishing boats sit in the desert Two good things about this . OSH approved - no shipwrecks DOC approved - no fish stock depletion	R2x1 (4628)
501415	2006-12-13 23:06:00	We have a mountain of bureaucrats who one would suppose would be looking into the sustainability of the above,what are we paying the bleeders for? Not sure who these dairy people are,one is loath to call them farmers,the first thing they did round here was to cut out the shelter,to allow huge irrigation units to go in.So who are they?not the local sheep farmers I am sure,they were largely marginal at best,these things costs millions.	Cicero (40)
501416	2006-12-13 23:25:00	We really have left Brash behind us now :) There does seem to be a tendency for NZ farmers to all jump together onto the same bandwagons, and then kill the goose that lays the golden egg. Kiwi fruit at one stage, goat farming, deer farming, maybe other things too that I have forgotten. Then the mass exodus of farmers from the North Island with convoys of them moving down to Southland, and now they are ruining the environment through overdoing the dairy farming, with nitrate run offs into the rivers, and nitrate seepage down into their domestic water supply wells, running the rivers dry etc. They really should practice the user pay policy, all this do as you like free market forces nonsense is giving them a free ride at the expense of "hard working New Zealanders" like Cicero and me. :) The goat farming nonsense was particularly bad, because many irresponsible "farmers" just let them run off into the wild when they gave up on it. The goat farming one was really pathetic. High prices being paid for stock that wasn't worth anything. Fencing not up to scratch. A lot of these problems are caused by what I call Queen street farmers like a couple from Wellington that bought a little property just out of Masterton and then went to the Clairville sale and bought some young calves. Left them on the property while they worked over in Wellington for the week. When they came back at the weekend they were all dead. They complained that they had been sold dud stock. They were so dumb that they didn't realise that the calves that they had bought still needed milk.	mikebartnz (21)
501417	2006-12-13 23:28:00	The goat farming nonsense was particularly bad, because many irresponsible "farmers" just let them run off into the wild when they gave up on it. Very like the Nat's and their redundant leaders? :mad: :help: Oh Darn, they may start breeding in the wild.	R2x1 (4628)
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