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Thread ID: 74756	2006-12-04 03:29:00	Power prices :(	Shortcircuit (1666)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
504127	2006-12-05 03:23:00	We may or may not come up with good suggestions for the solutions to our power problems,what I would like to see is the good ideas coming from the people who we pay good money to-gov departments etc.	Cicero (40)
504128	2006-12-05 04:44:00	Solar panels may be expensive, but wouldn't a couple of panels on every roof in the country reduce some of the consumption need?? Although this increase seems to be more about the need for more transmission lines rather than generation capacity.	Antmannz (6583)
504129	2006-12-05 04:45:00	what I would like to see is the good ideas coming from the people who we pay good money to-gov departments etc. A highly unlikely scenario. Call me a cynic, but I believe that is why we pay them good money... to keep them from coming up with 'good ideas'. Look what happened to for instance the LTSA when it became proactive.... the wheels fell off :horrified	Shortcircuit (1666)
504130	2006-12-05 05:54:00	Solar panels may be expensive, but wouldn't a couple of panels on every roof in the country reduce some of the consumption need?? Although this increase seems to be more about the need for more transmission lines rather than generation capacity. A "couple of panels" would provide about 200 watt-hours or less for about 5 hours per day. That's about 1 unit per day or less at non peak times, say 15 cents per day or $50 per year assuming no dark overcast weather. It would provide most of this at the time that there was no peak load on the grid in most cases, so no real gain for Transpower. Then at night, you would want normal load, so the grid has to be able to cope with that peak load, which is unchanged. But the consumption around mid-day would reduce. If you add batteries to the mix, then the costs become truly unaffordable. The panels and a mains synch inverter would probably set you back about $5,000 at a rough estimate, without a large battery bank.	godfather (25)
504131	2006-12-05 09:28:00	I have to laugh at this continual sniping at Auckland. If it was such a rotten place, why do so many NZers go there to live & work. from all over NZ & abroad.(in a serious mode.) 1 in 5 people were not even born in this country that live in Auckland. And truely if the power loss through transmission was factored into it Auckland would barely exist; just like we pay for roading problems there that needn't be.	mikebartnz (21)
504132	2006-12-05 09:38:00	Solar water heating is a bit more effective than most solar collection schemes, it stores the energy where it is needed, and the transmission losses (aside from the 1st 90 odd million miles) are pretty low.	R2x1 (4628)
504133	2006-12-05 09:48:00	Solar panels may be expensive, but wouldn't a couple of panels on every roof in the country reduce some of the consumption need?? I couldn't find the site but there is a new solar panel technology developed in California and going to be manufactured in Germany that is going to be a fifth to a tenth of the price of present technology. That is realy going to make a difference. I have actually looked after a place on alterative energy. They were quoted $22,000 to get the power poled in and chose to buy a couple of salar panels and a windmill (300W) instead. I have since learnt a lot more and would choose to live in a place that could cater to a small hydro. There is a guy in Tauranga who produces a unit that is capable of 1,000W. Under the right circumstances that can be 24 hours a day and 365 days of the year with the occasional cleanout of the intake. That guy had a unit returned to him after 7 years with a stuffed bearing and he repaired it for nothing. Now that is service almost unheard of today.	mikebartnz (21)
504134	2006-12-05 09:59:00	The panels and a mains synch inverter would probably set you back about $5,000 at a rough estimate, without a large battery bank. That would probably include the battery bank which if used properly will last ten years plus. A three bank 24volt battery bank will knock you back $3600 which equates to about $36 a month or less. What damages the battery bank most is taking them regularly below tha 50% charge and not equilizing them. The inverters have come down in price a lot.	mikebartnz (21)
504135	2006-12-05 10:13:00	The nuclear issue is a fascinating debate. Leave aside the anti-nuclear arguments and we are left with clear economic questions. As GF says, you can't have just one reactor, you need at least 2 in order to have instant backup generation when one reactor undergoes maintenance/offline. At the moment the cost of a nuclear power station is beyond the NZ economy. Yes, we could build one but the price of power from it would be too high. It would probably take 10 years to build allowing for resource consents etc. You need a lot of people/industries in a concentrated area to get the best use of nuclear generation. When reactors become cheap enough - and that is entirely likely - NZ can consider this option, but it could be 10 years away. In the meantime I think tidal power should be harnessed rather than this light-weight wind nonsence. Solar panels will be useful in time but at the moment are expensive in energy terms and inefficent. Besides, we live in a temperate cloudy country. Actually solar panels are probably about as efficient as gas powered stations which are about 36% efficient. Present technology for solar panel is 16 to 20% efficient but that still equates to better efficiency than burning Gas to produce power. Your mention of tidal power reminds me of hearing about a group that wanted to set up a tidal power system in Cook Strait. A briliant idea sunk 40 metres below sea leavel and could power the whole of NZ.	mikebartnz (21)
504136	2006-12-05 19:43:00	Actually solar panels are probably about as efficient as gas powered stations which are about 36% efficient . Present technology for solar panel is 16 to 20% efficient but that still equates to better efficiency than burning Gas to produce power . Your mention of tidal power reminds me of hearing about a group that wanted to set up a tidal power system in Cook Strait . A briliant idea sunk 40 metres below sea leavel and could power the whole of NZ . I think the Cook Strait experiment is still going ahead and it is a very interesting idea . The true "energy cost" of solar panels has to take account of the fuel and machinery used to mine silicon, smelt it, make the panels, transport them, then install and wire them into each individual building . The same energy equation reveals that bio-fuel either uses more energy to make than it produces, or at best is 20% on the positive side . By contrast, oil is something like 1200% . It is a tough calculation to get past . FWIIW I abhor the use of fossil fuels but there isn't a viable alternative yet . Hydrogen is simply a way of transporting energy from the place it is made (which requires a lot of energy) to where it is used - car, generator, whatever . Hydrogen returns about 36% of the energy required to make it .	Winston001 (3612)
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