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Thread ID: 74962	2006-12-11 21:53:00	Fuel Injector Cleaner	smithie 38 (6684)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
505956	2006-12-11 21:53:00	Hi folks. I own a low mileage V6 Camry and my mate keeps telling me to use fuel injector cleaner every 6 or so petrol top ups. Says it gives better performance etc etc. To me it is just another gimmick, but would really like to know whether a bottle of fuel injector cleaner put through the tank every so on, is really worth the extra cost. Anyone any comments??? Ta Smithie	smithie 38 (6684)
505957	2006-12-11 22:09:00	don't most petrol stations (shell e.c.t) have additives in their petrol that do the same thing?	MAC_H8ER (5897)
505958	2006-12-11 22:11:00	If it ain't broke, don't fix it.	R2x1 (4628)
505959	2006-12-11 22:24:00	injector cleaners can be good and give the fuel system a bit of a clean out. run one every now and then (once a year) as they are not really ment for continous use. peformance additivies can be used all the time. some work ok, some are just snake oil.	tweak'e (69)
505960	2006-12-12 02:08:00	Don't know about NZ fuels . . . but here in the US, there is a lot of alcohol added to the gas to stretch it out a little, and it's this alcohol that is harming things . This causes a few distinct problems . 1) The injectors have to run longer duty cycles correcting for lower BTU's in the fuel . 2) Heat escalates the evaporation of the fuel during "hot soak" when the engine is shut off after running . 3) Vapors from the alcohol congeal in the nozzles and also the throttle plate and ISC motor, making them gummy . 4) The congealed vapors make the injector "urinate" instead of making a good spray pattern, affecting idle and low-throttle performance . High throttle performance isn't so damaged . Now . . . certain additives are useless . . . . snake oil, and I hate them . However . . . . . there are a few that really do work . Some are additives that can remove these gummy residues that harm performance and make the throttle body stick and ruin the ISC (idle speed control) motor by making it try to "home" itself and burn out . With the injectors running over 50% duty cycles, for which they are originally designed, they burn out the windings in the solenoids and that causes the computer to have to try to activate them with higher amperage . . . and that will damage the computer after a while . The oxygen sensor(s) demand more fuel, the computer turns up the duty cycle and advances the injection timing and the whole thing cycle becomes a Sondern . . . . . a self-feeding self-destructive cycle . We have a product here in the US called "Sea-Foam (http://www . seafoamsales . com/)" that is the same additive that General Mortors uses to clean their systems when they are servicing a car for a customer . I don't use any oil additives, just their fuel injection system cleaner ( . seafoamsales . com/motorTuneUpTechGas . htm" target="_blank">www . seafoamsales . com) . I also don't pour it into the oil as advised . I just use it in the fuel tank . . . one can to about 10-16 gallons . If the throttle body is coked up, I use a different product . . . . Berryman's B-12 ( . berrymanproducts . com/Default . aspx?tabid=138" target="_blank">www . berrymanproducts . com) It is an aerosol spray and is safe for the TPS and ISC . Use a soft . . . soft brush to remove the deposits . . . or a finger is good too . I have 43+ years in the automotive service/repair industry, and recently have retired . . . . so I am not senile yet . . but any day now! :xmouth:	SurferJoe46 (51)
505961	2006-12-12 03:33:00	Hi Smithie, When we had our VL Commodore we decided to try out a fuel injector cleaner upon the recommendation of a mechanic who knew a lot about these cars. Afterwards it was a lot more peppy and seemed to be a little less thirsty so we were quite impressed with the results. We didn't put one through the tank as often as you have been advised however, just every six months or so. Whether it will do anything for your car I wouldn't know but I don't suppose it would kill it to find out. :p	FoxyMX (5)
505962	2006-12-12 03:38:00	Hi Guys Thanks for your comments and especially SurferJoe for his technical imput. It appears that no harm can be done by using an injector cleaner in the fuel occasionally, so will most probably give it a try over the Xmas holidays. Smithie	smithie 38 (6684)
505963	2006-12-12 11:52:00	don't most petrol stations (shell e . c . t) have additives in their petrol that do the same thing? in NZ shell is the worst thing you could burn to try and keep your engine clean, they use the NZ refinery which results in ****ty fuel . i can actually tell when the old gull gas in my fuel lines is replaced by shell . the power decrease is noticable on bikes, and shell fouls my dirtbike's sparkplug within 3 hours while bp allows months i won't use caltex untill they tell me exactly what 'techron' is bp and gull are the best, and remember in nz the station tanks have breather pipes, so what we call 98octane is actually 95(RON), and 95/96 is closer to 90/91, and 91 is more of an 86 . . . avgas is 103 and ethanol i believe is 130, but ethanol has a habit of eating rubber comonents and some plastics and absorbs water from the atmosphere . . . . ok, now that was kinda unrelated, point is it helps to use clean fuel rather than crap fuel - as my speedway racer uncle craig says: "what do you eat to stay healthy? crap or healthy food? the same applies to the engine, don't feed it crap or it'll give you crap" he also advises against using avgas as it apparently has oil in it to lower its freezing point, and apparently the prop engines that run it rev at 2,500rpm, while my bike idles at 3,000 redlining at 17grand:eek: i'll stop now oh- octane does not dictate energy content of fuel - or power - but rather the amount of compression the fuel will take before exploding on its on before the ignition causing knocking and possible engine damage . point being dont spend an extra 15c a litre on 98 when your car will run fine on 91 . if your engine has higher compression (giving more power) then it will need 98, and will suffer from running too low an octane rated fuel ok - /rambling	motorbyclist (188)
505964	2006-12-12 20:24:00	Hi motorbyclist. Interesting comments you make. However I always thought that oil companies obtained their fuel from NZ Refinining, or if they were unable to supply for any reason, refined fuel was imported. I again thought the only difference between fuel supplied through petrol stations by the various oil companies was the additives they put in. On your advice maybe I should change from Shell to BP, and if I put a bottle of injector cleaner through it, I can see myself going over the Rimutukas in top gear. ;)	smithie 38 (6684)
505965	2006-12-12 22:16:00	Don't know about NZ fuels . . . but here in the US, there is a lot of alcohol added to the gas to stretch it out a little, and it's this alcohol that is harming things . hi joe . i don't think they add alcohol here to streatch the fuel, its often added to control water in the fuel . mind you they are looking at haveing alcohol added as part of "bio fuels" . on;y thing i'm concerned about is alcohol eats normal/older fuel lines . i've had a bit to do with race cars over the years including running on methanol . your quite correct, you need to poor in a lot more alcohol compare to petrol . the other thing is alcohol burns cooler and can have an impact on running temps which can upset some vechiles .	tweak'e (69)
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