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Thread ID: 75112	2006-12-17 00:37:00	NZ Education System going downhill	somebody (208)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
507302	2006-12-22 20:06:00	Well, let's take these things one by one. Fashion, if you mean different styles of casual clothing, is a trivial personal choice affecting no one else. (Although I will observe that turning up for an interview for an auditor's job in ripped jeans, an AC/DC t-shirt and a three-day growth of beard may not get you the job.) When you write or speak, there's another party involved and it's common courtesy to make his or her task of comprehension easier by adhering to a common set of conventions. So it's not a very apt analogy. Secondly, your argument seems to imply that certain language usages are a conscious choice ("defined by the people who use it") whereas we're talking about people being deprived of the power of choice by not having been taught the rules in the first place. If I write "they're" when "their" is the correct choice for the meaning, it's simply a mistake. Defending that is like defending the right of a mechanic to fit the wrong spark plugs in my car. The purpose of spark plugs is to ignite the air/fuel mixture during combustion and the purpose of language is communicate ideas or wishes from one person to another. Placing literacy just above keeping up with Shortland Street is a rather odd tier of priorities given how much communication skills affect a person's ability to get the most out of life. Everyone's entitled to his opinion, but in this case yours is wrong. Anyway, have a merry Christmas. Ah,shame, you completely missed everything I said, Still, We all have our limitations. Looks like your forever condemned to live in your box.	Metla (12)
507303	2006-12-22 20:50:00	I can just about see some logic in the 50% pass rate, but not much, well not much as compared with the system as it used to be in UK . The UK School Certificate exams at "Ordinary Level" and at "Advanced Level" were moderated and basically set by the universities . There were different exams of more or less the same level set by different authorities . I can only remember now the area board I was in, The Northern Universities Joint Matriculation Board, but there was an Oxford/Cambridge board, and of course the University of London "Matriculation" exams . There was no scaling like in NZ . I like your contribution Terry and agree with it except for the no scaling . I was too young when I got my SC in 1948 to have any real knowledge of what went on behind the scenes, but I do remember when we aired the point with our school teachers - we were worried about having a HARD year when we sat the exams . They assured us steps were taken to make each year produce the same sort of result ie scaling . And when I was a teacher setting internal exams I also applied a certain type of scaling even if it was only the marks I awarded for the questions . I would have been upset if my 3rd form maths class had recorded far higher or lower marks than the last years classes . It's all scaling really . Tom	Thomas01 (317)
507304	2006-12-22 21:08:00	Ah,shame, you completely missed everything I said, Still, We all have our limitations. Looks like your forever condemned to live in your box. No problem. We can agree to disagree. Have a happy new year with that merry Christmas. :thumbs:	chainey (9225)
507305	2006-12-22 21:26:00	You are correct of course Thomas, there was a degree of retrospective scaling in particular subjects if it turned out that the levels were not even, ie sometimes exams was "too hard" or "too easy" compared with what had gone before, or as between the different matriculation boards. That was fair enough, however they didn't scale on the basis of a 50% pass rate, SC and HSC were more what I'd call "absolute" standards of achievement, independent of teachers whims and assessments. Another serious problem that arose in the UK during the mid-60s, because of idealogical reasons, was the reduction and eventual elimination of evening work, or nightschool, at "tech." for those studying for Higher National Certificate. The only way to get HNC became by day release from work, this eliminated older people from being able to get a good qualification in their own time by dint of sheer hard work. There were some fine engineers and high flying designers I knew who had worked to get their HNC at night, one in particular was a top jet engine fuel system "theoretical" designer. HNC was really the backbone for much of engineering, because it was near to general degree level and also because HNC people had the benefit of practical experience, it was a pathway to membership of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers, (that is until, the regs. were changed to virtually exclude HNC holders). I may be wrong, but I think HNC has also been "dumbed down" maybe in favour of pushing HND (Higher National Diploma), as I see from Google that HNC can now be obtained in two years part time these days.	Terry Porritt (14)
507306	2006-12-22 21:47:00	Aha Cicero, we got a bite - a big one too!! :D Ignore your posts, Mets? No can do I'm afraid; in fact the complete opposite occurs. The speeling and gramma just add to the character and flavour of them. ;) Merry Giftmas to you and yours too. :thumbs: PS Where/what is Shortland Street? PPS I thought you had all but given up the beer? :confused: Shortland St is in Auckland. One up from Custom St if memory serves me right. Probably named for the Shortland who had a Freezing Works out Otahuhu way.There is also a Shortland Cemetary in Thames. (I think only people under 6 foot are buried there!!!) PJ	Poppa John (284)
507307	2006-12-22 22:07:00	It is of no relevance to NZ, except that dumbing down is not just a NZ thing :), but further Googling does indeed show that the UK HNC has been dumbed down considerably compared to the pre-1960 levels . In the days of a 5 year apprenticeship, it was 2 years part time to ONC, (Ordinary National Certificate), and 3 years part time to basic HNC . Then it was usually another post apprenticeship year to get various "endorsements", in accounting, or management, or other more specialised topics and so on . And of course, assessment then was by way of examination, theoretical and practical . Now it is just 2 years part time, or 1 year full time, and an HNC is awarded from course assessment, it is said to be equivalent to first year university: "How will I be assessed? This course is assessed by a combination of projects, assignments and practical tasks . The qualification is assessed entirely by course work . On completion the student receives a Higher National Certificate in Engineering . " . wolvcoll . ac . uk/courses2/enghc . html" target="_blank">www . wolvcoll . ac . uk The old HNC with endorsements was close to a "general degree" .	Terry Porritt (14)
507308	2006-12-22 22:49:00	So, whats your conclusion? Change is bad even if its for the better?	Metla (12)
507309	2006-12-22 23:09:00	Anyhow, Speaking of Shortland Freezing works.... imagef1.net.nz We came, we saw, we reduced to rubble.	Metla (12)
507310	2006-12-22 23:47:00	A crushing retort	R2x1 (4628)
507311	2006-12-22 23:50:00	Anyhow, Speaking of Shortland Freezing works.... imagef1.net.nz We came, we saw, we reduced to rubble. I remember it happening. Drove past daily to/from work. Didn't see you there tho!!!. PJ	Poppa John (284)
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