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Thread ID: 75112	2006-12-17 00:37:00	NZ Education System going downhill	somebody (208)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
507292	2006-12-22 02:27:00	Just skimmed the thread, Not really worth reading a single post if the article I read the other day about the upswing over the last 20 years in intelligence of school leavers is indeed true. Meaning they have been educated to a better level then those that came before them. That, and the fact that we should call a spade a spade, Plenty of people will be factory workers, Shovel hands, Dish cleaners, Tradesmen, and I'm sure in most cases their quality of life will be just the same as those that stay in education for another 5 years before entering the adult arena. Life isn't measured by your pay packet or your score on some damn fool "intelligence" test. To many the nuances of the English language is meaningless and thats probably a better use of ones time then those that get upset about the downfall of mankind based on a hyphen out of place. Might it not be,that not giving a toss about grammar might also apply to all else.Or does your theory only run to the English language?	Cicero (40)
507293	2006-12-22 03:35:00	Might it not be,that not giving a toss about grammar might also apply to all else.Or does your theory only run to the English language? Very well said. ;)	FoxyMX (5)
507294	2006-12-22 04:13:00	Thats a massive leap of poor logic, based on that thinking because I don't give a toss about fashion then that might also apply to all else. People not caring about the things you were taught to be the rock of society are of no more consequence or relevance then ...uh, god knows, Ignoring the policies put forward by Rodney Hyde. Though don't for a second think that I am trying to tell you not to take a personal stance in the English language (at this point of time anyhow, In case you haven't noticed the language is fluid and defined by the people who use it, Not the people who try and protect it from the people). If salvation of the language in the state you were taught it is your thing, Then its your thing, It is slightly more worthy then keeping abreast of the latest bed hopping on Shortland St, but only slightly.	Metla (12)
507295	2006-12-22 04:15:00	Anyhow, now I have the attention of at least 2 people, I would wish you a Merry Giftmass, Im off to drink 300 beers so if you see me post again tonight, do your best to ignore it.....	Metla (12)
507296	2006-12-22 04:59:00	Aha Cicero, we got a bite - a big one too!! :D Ignore your posts, Mets? No can do I'm afraid; in fact the complete opposite occurs. The speeling and gramma just add to the character and flavour of them. ;) Merry Giftmas to you and yours too. :thumbs: PS Where/what is Shortland Street? PPS I thought you had all but given up the beer? :confused:	FoxyMX (5)
507297	2006-12-22 05:09:00	Thats a massive leap of poor logic, based on that thinking because I don't give a toss about fashion then that might also apply to all else. People not caring about the things you were taught to be the rock of society are of no more consequence or relevance then ...uh, god knows, Ignoring the policies put forward by Rodney Hyde. Though don't for a second think that I am trying to tell you not to take a personal stance in the English language (at this point of time anyhow, In case you haven't noticed the language is fluid and defined by the people who use it, Not the people who try and protect it from the people). If salvation of the language in the state you were taught it is your thing, Then its your thing, It is slightly more worthy then keeping abreast of the latest bed hopping on Shortland St, but only slightly. Well, let's take these things one by one. Fashion, if you mean different styles of casual clothing, is a trivial personal choice affecting no one else. (Although I will observe that turning up for an interview for an auditor's job in ripped jeans, an AC/DC t-shirt and a three-day growth of beard may not get you the job.) When you write or speak, there's another party involved and it's common courtesy to make his or her task of comprehension easier by adhering to a common set of conventions. So it's not a very apt analogy. Secondly, your argument seems to imply that certain language usages are a conscious choice ("defined by the people who use it") whereas we're talking about people being deprived of the power of choice by not having been taught the rules in the first place. If I write "they're" when "their" is the correct choice for the meaning, it's simply a mistake. Defending that is like defending the right of a mechanic to fit the wrong spark plugs in my car. The purpose of spark plugs is to ignite the air/fuel mixture during combustion and the purpose of language is communicate ideas or wishes from one person to another. Placing literacy just above keeping up with Shortland Street is a rather odd tier of priorities given how much communication skills affect a person's ability to get the most out of life. Everyone's entitled to his opinion, but in this case yours is wrong. Anyway, have a merry Christmas.	chainey (9225)
507298	2006-12-22 07:34:00	Thus we have a dearth of mechanics, plumbers, drainlayers, fitters and turners, electricians etc etc. Dirty hands-on work - who'd want to do that?? I think you have to blame the lack of apprenticeships available for that one. Now, of course, if there is an apprenticeship available, you need to have achieved NCEA in some areas at least. IMHO We have a general failure of the whole system. This starts with things such as "Womens' Rights", "Childrens' Rights", the general PC brigade, no discrimination, breakdown of the family unit, collective bargaining for wages and I could go on. There should be a word used more often along with "rights". That word is "responsibility" and unfortunately in this day nobody seems to be responsible or accountable Children should be taught, at an early age, language and communication skills! Reading and comphrehension. Give your children selected books and encourage them to read and ask questions. Teach core subjects and then build on them so a person can then research through books, the internet, family, friends, whanau etc. It matters not which language but I believe (in New Zealand) English should be compulsory. If people wish to learn other languages this should be encouraged. Now the way I learned was because my Father went to work and Mum didn't. My Dad earned enough money to support the family unit but I do remember Mother having a part time job in a sewing factory in Wellington. The point there is Mum packed the lunches for three and went to work after we went to school and she was also there when we came home from school. The books were the thing. Told to go to bed at around night time I was duty bound to do so. Did not stop me reading by the light of a torch under the covers did it! Saturday afternoon was movie day and I'm very surprised that there are any American red Indians left after the number I saw fall to the guns of the forked tongued white people.:) To go to the movies in the first place I had to do work. AIRI this was moving wheelbarrows of stuff from one place to another. Paid at the rate of 1 penny per load. Nine loads a week would get me into the movies and thruppence to spend. I add that Dad counted each barrow load as it went past. I was taught the work ethic here. Now, if something goes wrong, we have a "systemic failure" and no one or group is responsible or can be held to account. A year or so back I went to computer classes at Te Wanaga o Aotearoa to do level three computing. I could get three credits for simply attending a noho marae. What, in your opinion, does this teach me about computers? What, in your opinion, would a prospective employer think of this? BTW I am 60+ and I don't think I know everything yet. I did when I was 15 but not now. I still work every rostered day I get and have worked for the same employer for the last 10 years. I started on $10.00 per hour 10 years ago and have now graduated to $13.50. Going backward when you take inflation into account. I think around seven sick days off over that time for which I did not get paid. I don't really complain a lot. I'm lucky to have a job at my age.	Sweep (90)
507299	2006-12-22 08:19:00	.....But yet despite all that has been said, there are quite a number of extremely clever, bright, and erudite PF1'ers who are still "pupils" :), and who discuss topics to a level that in my day would not have been reached until university. I have been humbled and quite amazed on many occasions.	Terry Porritt (14)
507300	2006-12-22 08:34:00	. . . . . But yet despite all that has been said, there are quite a number of extremely clever, bright, and erudite PF1'ers who are still "pupils" :), and who discuss topics to a level that in my day would not have been reached until university . I have been humbled and quite amazed on many occasions . I agree, but would point out that this is the likely result of self-education despite the current education system . . . A motivated learner will always do better than a reluctant one . Merry Christmas everyone!	johcar (6283)
507301	2006-12-22 08:52:00	NZQA is really at fault here. They are completely unnecessary. Umpteen years ago when they first started I was a teacher and already could see the lowering of standards. As basically a design engineer, before entering teaching (maths and Tech Drg) I was told by NZQA they would decide if my qualifications were in order - this from a bunch of morons who would not know the front end of a Phillips screwdriver from the business end of a vertical mill. Internal assessment is always subject to abuse - I know because I did it - giving marks for work I hadn't even seen - forced to by my principal - long gone fortunately - now an MP Sadly Tom So was it you that helped to teach people how to stab with a screwdriver? I really do not think so! :rolleyes: As Winston has mentioned we are actually run by Civil servants and there is no possibility of voting them out. Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister were so true.	Sweep (90)
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