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Thread ID: 75112	2006-12-17 00:37:00	NZ Education System going downhill	somebody (208)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
507272	2006-12-17 09:03:00	You are kidding right? That is almost promoting cheating.He means the use of text message language, not actually text messaging. ie. not loosing marks for writing "2 b or not 2b" and other ridiculous things like that.	maccrazy (6741)
507273	2006-12-18 21:02:00	NZQA is really at fault here. They are completely unnecessary. Umpteen years ago when they first started I was a teacher and already could see the lowering of standards. As basically a design engineer, before entering teaching (maths and Tech Drg) I was told by NZQA they would decide if my qualifications were in order - this from a bunch of morons who would not know the front end of a Phillips screwdriver from the business end of a vertical mill. Internal assessment is always subject to abuse - I know because I did it - giving marks for work I hadn't even seen - forced to by my principal - long gone fortunately - now an MP Sadly Tom	Thomas01 (317)
507274	2006-12-18 21:15:00	NZQA is really at fault here . They are completely unnecessary . Umpteen years ago when they first started I was a teacher and already could see the lowering of standards . As basically a design engineer, before entering teaching (maths and Tech Drg) I was told by NZQA they would decide if my qualifications were in order - this from a bunch of morons who would not know the front end of a Phillips screwdriver from the business end of a vertical mill . Internal assessment is always subject to abuse - I know because I did it - giving marks for work I hadn't even seen - forced to by my principal - long gone fortunately - now an MP Sadly TomHopefully not the Tennis Ball Man!! Though it wouldn't surprise . . . Perhaps a change to the adage is in order: "Those who can, do; those who can't, take up a political career" . Especially true of a PM I could name :xmouth: who hasn't done an honest day's work in her life! Always been in academia or politics and so has no real idea about the "real" world!! Actually when I think of it, this would apply to local body politics also!!	johcar (6283)
507275	2006-12-19 07:35:00	First NCEA instead of real exams. Then txt allowed in NCEA tests. Now no exams. ANd the demolished apprenticeship structure. Morons will be in charge in a few years.... I thort thay wer alredy, in Welinton. PJ.:angry	Poppa John (284)
507276	2006-12-19 07:36:00	First NCEA instead of real exams. Then txt allowed in NCEA tests. Now no exams. ANd the demolished apprenticeship structure. Morons will be in charge in a few years.... I thort thay wer already, in welinton. PJ :(	Poppa John (284)
507277	2006-12-19 07:41:00	Ur NCEA results, (txt permitted) Tst shwz u pssd. Soba up	R2x1 (4628)
507278	2006-12-20 13:51:00	NZQA is really at fault here. They are completely unnecessary. Umpteen years ago when they first started I was a teacher and already could see the lowering of standards. As basically a design engineer, before entering teaching (maths and Tech Drg) I was told by NZQA they would decide if my qualifications were in order - this from a bunch of morons who would not know the front end of a Phillips screwdriver from the business end of a vertical mill. Internal assessment is always subject to abuse - I know because I did it - giving marks for work I hadn't even seen - forced to by my principal - long gone fortunately - now an MP Sadly Tom About fifteen years ago they asked these teacher trainees the same maths questions these twelve year olds were asked in 1911 and the 12 year old's out sang the teacher trainees.	mikebartnz (21)
507279	2006-12-20 14:55:00	In my opinion, most of you are missing the real problem here. The problem I perceive with the education system in New Zealand is not about how the curriculum is being delivered, but rather the very curriculum itself. Too often, when news like this is released, people jump to conclusions and blame an allegedly incompetent government. The posts which have already been left in this thread clearly support this idea. I put it to you, the readers, that there is no single government possibly available in NZ currently that could truly solve the problem in our education system. Personally, I think that abolishing the exam system is an amazing idea. Exams are a terribly stressful experience for such young minds and I fail to see what is gained from exams other than being an economically effective method of assessment for the party responsible for providing the education and its delivery. I challenge anyone here to accurately prove that an exam system will be more beneficial in terms of the way students prepare, learn and develop thinking patterns as compared with a programme of solely internal assessment. We, as a society, are placing far too much emphasis on the acquisition of technical skills and specialisation in a given field. It is less and less important to be able to think and more important, now, to simply be able to provide the right answer when required. Is this a problem with NCEA? Or with internal assessment? No... it's a fundamental problem rooted within the attitude that the state curriculum brings to education. What needs to take place, for the benefit of the intellectual wealth of New Zealand as a whole, is a full-scale redesign of the education system with a clear and bold emphasis on actually involving children in the thinking process rather than simply delivering a defined set of information for them to digest. Children are not mechanical, so why is it that we have a mechanical education process? Also, does anyone find it ironic that on the NZH article link there is an advertisment for downloadable text ringtones/sounds? Cheers, Logan Bolam 19 years old, NCEA 3 entrance to University.	Aurealis_ (7897)
507280	2006-12-20 16:53:00	First NCEA instead of real exams. Morons will be in charge in a few years.... Just what makes you think we do not have morons in charge now?	Sweep (90)
507281	2006-12-20 17:55:00	In my opinion, most of you are missing the real problem here. The problem I perceive with the education system in New Zealand is not about how the curriculum is being delivered, but rather the very curriculum itself. Too often, when news like this is released, people jump to conclusions and blame an allegedly incompetent government. The posts which have already been left in this thread clearly support this idea. I put it to you, the readers, that there is no single government possibly available in NZ currently that could truly solve the problem in our education system. Personally, I think that abolishing the exam system is an amazing idea. Exams are a terribly stressful experience for such young minds and I fail to see what is gained from exams other than being an economically effective method of assessment for the party responsible for providing the education and its delivery. I challenge anyone here to accurately prove that an exam system will be more beneficial in terms of the way students prepare, learn and develop thinking patterns as compared with a programme of solely internal assessment. We, as a society, are placing far too much emphasis on the acquisition of technical skills and specialisation in a given field. It is less and less important to be able to think and more important, now, to simply be able to provide the right answer when required. Is this a problem with NCEA? Or with internal assessment? No... it's a fundamental problem rooted within the attitude that the state curriculum brings to education. What needs to take place, for the benefit of the intellectual wealth of New Zealand as a whole, is a full-scale redesign of the education system with a clear and bold emphasis on actually involving children in the thinking process rather than simply delivering a defined set of information for them to digest. Children are not mechanical, so why is it that we have a mechanical education process? Also, does anyone find it ironic that on the NZH article link there is an advertisment for downloadable text ringtones/sounds? Cheers, Logan Bolam 19 years old, NCEA 3 entrance to University. The idea of having exams is to ensure consistency throughout NZ when it coes to finally assessing students on their knowledge for a particular subject. Internal assessment techniques are far too open to abuse, and while they are "easier" on students, they are inconsistent with the assessment techniques used at tertiary study (which I'm sure you can vouch for). When a government is elected to ensure that essential services such as education are accomplished, they must be held accountable for poor directions taken by their nominated officials. This is the whole point of democracy, to hold governments accountable for bad decisions they make for the nation. While I agree in part with your philosophical idea about "education" as a whole, the underlying problem which exists is the ability to assess whether students have gained knowledge. A national examination system is the only way to ensure consistency, by putting students against a "benchmark". While it will not tell the full story of what someone does or does not know, it is much fairer, and provides a better indication to employers and tertiary institutes of a student's ability, as opposed to credits which have been given by teachers - whose views on "good" and "excellent" work/knowledge will vary. Furthermore, it is impossible to simply say that we need to teach students to be able to "provide the right answer when required". Human beings cannot know everything, so if you try to teach students to "know everything", then you end up with a population which has a shallow understanding in all areas. Specialisation ensures that in a society, there are groups of people who have in-depth understanding in a particular field, who are able to contribute their knowledge in that field for the benefit of the greater good. At the same time, other people with different specialties are able to contribute their in-depth knowledge, whether it be nuclear physics, or plumbing, whatever. Specialisation means that a society as a whole has a deeper understanding of more fields, which in my view, is much better than a society which simply knows a little bit of everything. I think it's important at this stage to realise that there are two separate categories to what we call "education". For the more "traditional" academic subjects, the proposed (and some of the current) changes to the education system are simply unacceptable. To allow text-language in science based subjects (as an example) is inconsistent with what is expected of them at higher education, and employment situations. A graduate with a science degree is expected to write reports, findings, papers etc. in proper english sentences - so it is important to prepare students, instead of giving them an easy-ride through school. In these subjects, things are "right", or "wrong". There is no room for creativity or flexiblity, because that is the nature of these fields. To impart an artificial flexiblity onto these subjects by making assessment easier is short-changing students of the knowledge and life-skills learnt by preparing for exams, is simply setting students up for failure when measured against skilled graduates from other overseas, in our ever globalised world. On the other hand, technical subjects such as woodwork, etc., have a creative aspect to them. That is why they are, and should, be assessed on a case-by-case basis, with a more philosophical approach to "success". This is consistent with what occurs in the worksforce. You will see that these subjects have predominantly internal assessment, with a "project" which is assessed by a panel of teachers in place of an exam. Secondary school education is only a starting point for people's learning lives. The "mechanical" nature as you put it, is necessary for the reasons I've stated above. It imparts basic knowledge, which people then make the choice to develop further in life through tertiary education, research study, or employment.	somebody (208)
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