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Thread ID: 75416	2006-12-28 06:24:00	For SurferJoe	Sweep (90)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
510426	2006-12-28 06:24:00	Did not want to hijack your Vista security thread but did want to explain a couple of things. "Please don't destroy my ideas about NZ...I see green pastures for grazing herds of sheep and cattle, Tudor-style homes and cottages with dirt pathways and rural morals and attitudes. I see trellises and rose gardens and smell fireplaces and sweet water running in brooks and streams with trout and butterflies." Now, in New Zealand, we can see all of those things some of the time but never all of those things all of the time. Fortunately I can see most of these most of the time just on my way to work. As for rural morals and attitudes I do have a problem where I live. We have a large population of Maori, Samoans, Cook Islanders and I might add that most are great people. Unfortunately we have gone to be multicultural. Once we were bicultural. If you go to Auckland (and I lived in Mt Wellington for about seven years) I found it then to be a good place to live in 1972. Having recently revisited Panmure and Aucland central I found Queen St to be mostly Asian. This did not worry me but I had the feeling I was in a different country. If you came to New Zealand you would be blessed with a wide variety of scenery wrapped up in a small package. This means that travelling time is limited compared to the USA or Australia. I live in the central North Island and can get to Wellington in around 6 1/2 hours by car and Auckland in around 3 hours. This is at or near the speed limit and stops to take photos along the way. I happen to live in a place that does not have one traffic light and around a ten to fifteen minute drive from one side of town to the other. I lived in Sydney, Australia close to thirteen years on the north shore. Took 2 1/2 hours to get to the south bound motorway to go see my brother in Canberra. From Terrey Hills in Sydney I could see a constant cloud of smog over the city and south. There is a big difference between urban and rural here. I'm fairly sure that you have the same things in the USA. I don't mind having people of other cultures here or nationality here. I just want them to obey New Zealand laws and integrate. When in Rome do as the Romans do.	Sweep (90)
510427	2006-12-28 07:21:00	Thanks . . and I don't consider anyone doing bad by hijacking any thread I start . . . . . you all know I've done it to many of youse guys myself! I guess I had the "Heide" picture in my mind for what NZ looks like . . although even I know the difference in NZ and the Swiss Alps . Still . . . . it was a nice mental image . . . and now it's a little dashed . . but that's a good thing! Reality sucks, though! :groan:	SurferJoe46 (51)
510428	2006-12-28 07:31:00	Funny to see this post, as I was just thinking about this on my walk tonight -- specifically the news that the PM would be seeking advice from various ministries on how to avoid extremism from developing here. I concluded that there would be "education" campaigns telling the native citizens that they had to try harder and do more to welcome the newcomers. Any white person -- especially a white male -- commenting on race is assumed to be a racist. My view is that everybody generalizes inappropriately sometimes (My tribe, my sex, my race, my nation vs. yours), and that there are very very few absolutely pure racists -- i.e. people who would reject a warm, funny, intelligent, friendly, likable person because he or she was a different race. The way to avoid extremism is simple: only allow enough immigrants so that they will assimilate and integrate. When huge numbers of specific nationalities arrive in a short period of time they naturally clump together and form an enclave. If the enclave gets big enough, there's no longer any need to bother much with the native population. This has happened with white people in other countries so it's not a racial characteristic, it's a human characteristic. So why won't the government limit immigration? Simple: the immigrants will almost all become Labour party voters. Cynical? Yes. True? Almost certainly. Besides, if you have political power, it's no fun lording it over a small population. An argument often put forward is that there's no possibility of economic growth without massive immigration. The Japanese and Swiss might be a bit surprised to hear that. But even if it's true, there are other values for a happy life other than income -- like getting around in the traffic, being able to afford a property, being able to communicate with your neighbours without resorting to sign language. The last point I'll make about racism is this: It's funny how you can make a positive generalisation about a race (Asians are good students and responsible citizens; Polynesians are natural sportsmen and atheletes) and no one will say boo to you. But a similar generalisation with a negative flavour ...?	chainey (9225)
510429	2006-12-28 08:05:00	Racists :eek:	Murray P (44)
510430	2006-12-28 09:11:00	Can I just add to the first post, that the South island is closer to the ideal (idyle?) dreamed of by surferJoe. Although its no switzerland, it is certinaly rural and unspoiled. Of the 800,000 people there 400,000 are in 1 city, and the rest are in 3 or 4 other cities. That leaves huge areas of wilderness, farms, and nature, mostly unspoiled.	netchicken (4843)
510431	2006-12-28 09:47:00	That leaves huge areas of wilderness, farms, and nature, mostly unspoiled. Just leave that to the nature of humans + time......	qazwsxokmijn (102)
510432	2006-12-28 17:39:00	As I see it, humans are always either in "heat" or "gravid" and they seem to have no reproductive season to modulate the population . Overgrowth therefor is a given and it is a rapidly turning bell curve at the least . I totally agree with your Labor (OK . . I'll put a "u' in it for you: Labour) party statement . . . here it's the Democrats who get rank-swelling via the south-of-the-border illegal invaders . . . but there are other reasons that also fatten the brown envelopes the politicos receive at the end of the month . Collecting fees and providing social programs is the motto of the Democratic party, called "The Tax And Spend" group . I see this greed and social reform and the damage it causes from my lowly station on the food chain . Now . . . I would like free money as well as the next guy, but I realize that it doesn't grow on trees . . . although the feds can print as much as they deem necessary for any moment in time, but just knowing that I am the fruits of my own labors provides succor for me in the form of a good conscience and sleep-ability at night . I paid into the system from which I am now drawing sustenance, not just sucking dry the current and future coffers of other people . I cannot speak well of those who just arrive here pregnant with open hands and demands of food, shelter and free medical provisions on the back of the working class of this society . They demand their constitutional rights, to which they cannot concede the point that not being citizens, they don't have any! The tree-huggers give them everything they demand and short the rest of the citizens . . . . not a fair comparison, but a valid one . There really should be no borders at all . . but that is a pipedream . . . . . if one smoked anything at all . "Can't we all just get along?" Now . . . and again I say it . . . . in agreement with and risking being misunderstood here, your statement on racist remarks . . . it is human, albeit a lazy human . . . who will take and not give to the general funds for others too . These are the ones that generally aggravate the drone bees and cause social upheavals and insurrections . Perhaps racial slurs are a safety valve for a boiler that is to explode at any moment . Frustration is becoming more rampant and I don't see but two scenarios soon: 1) Violent social explosion . . . coup-type para-military things, or 2) a general "roll-over" and letting somebody else handle the problems 'cause "I have too much to do just trying to feed and clothe my family" . Remember the Watts Riots ( . wikipedia . org/wiki/Watts_Riots" target="_blank">en . wikipedia . org)? Remember the SLA ( . wikipedia . org/wiki/Symbionese_Liberation_Army" target="_blank">en . wikipedia . org) and Patty Hearst ( . wikipedia . org/wiki/Patty_Hearst" target="_blank">en . wikipedia . org)? Both are extreme evidence of the social imbalance here with money as the mitigating agent . . . either lack of it or too much . A more prime example I cannot think of at this moment . The monied- verses the un-monied folk are at razors edge with each other all the time . . . only now it has fallen to the blaring mouthpieces of Jesse Jacksons, any presidential attendee, the perverted coreligionists, the Al Sharptons and the Dudley Dorights of the US . Other neer-do-wells in this society squeak and have their 15 minutes of fame in the media and slink away . Some, (unlike fine cheese and wines), go on and on and grow tainted and stale and bitter to the palate . There are many alternate targets for this racio- / soci- / politico-, and yes . . . religio- unsettled-ness and I see great problems in the very near future . I wuz hoping to see an unblemished Valhalla somewhere south of the Equator, on the other side of the International Dateline with the seven dwarfs and Snow White and no witches and ugly old trolls . . . . . . but, alas! :waughh:	SurferJoe46 (51)
510433	2006-12-28 19:51:00	In the next 50 years NZ's pop is expected to grow by about 500,000 people . Guess where nearly all these people will go? The North Island In 50 years time the South island will look very similar to today, city pops will be higher, but not by that much . Wilderness will still be wilderness . Over 1/3 of the country is controlled by the Department Of Conservation, and they have locked up the land preventing development (more power to them) . Our childrens children will visit the same wild country that we enjoy, unfortunatly also along the same roads that we suffer . Just leave that to the nature of humans + time . . . . . .	netchicken (4843)
510434	2006-12-28 21:44:00	In the next 50 years NZ's pop is expected to grow by about 500,000 people. Guess where nearly all these people will go? I guess the South Island will gradually become a retirement community for disaffected refugees from Auckland. Sort of like a giant Tauranga. I would move there in a heartbeat, except for the fact that my living requires a certain concentration of industry -- I can't make a buck in a rural district. I've attended several retirement parties in the last few years for people who stated their intention to move to other regions to escape the urban blight (admittedly pretty tame by world standards, but distressing for those who grew up here).	chainey (9225)
510435	2006-12-29 17:56:00	This just reinforces the axiom that a person is smart but people (as in a flock) are generally dumb . Any ONE of us can see the folly of uncontrolled population in the equation presented : the nature of humans + time = questionable results (my addition) Reality actually offers another formula : unbridled humans + nature = overpopulation x ruined resourses TMC or TMP is a reality, and even though I live in what is considered a retirement community . . . we got gang-bangers and barrio dwellers as recent imports and traffic here is like downtown Garden Grove . . . (affectionately called "Garbage Grove" for all the people there), from whence they overflowed because of high reproductive abilities . What used to take 15 minutes to go South outta town here now takes a good 30-45 minutes . It ain't the old folks either! It's gangs of street kids and escapees from LA who are swamping the local colortura with graffitti and machine guns . Just a few days ago . . Xmas eve, someone drove thru town, shooting at the doors of closed businesses, trying to see which ones had bulletproof glass . Those that didn't, got robbed . The bullets and spent casings were . 45 cal . , probably Thompson machine guns as the patterns were not from a clip fed handgun . Just the idea that some merchants HAD bulletproof glass in their doors and windows in this community is a sad testimony . BTW: Thompson machine guns and ANY machine gun are federally illegal for anyone to own in fire-able condition . . . and then that person owning it has to be a federally registered collector .	SurferJoe46 (51)
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