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Thread ID: 76402	2007-01-31 05:59:00	Anti-Americanism?	martynz (5445)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
520990	2007-01-31 05:59:00	This is a quote from Winston Peter's speech at Orewa..... ..."Our partnerships and collaborative efforts are critical – particularly those with Australia and the United States. Yet there seems to be an irrational, and growing, sense of sport among some quarters in New Zealand where it is considered a perverse badge of honour to take cheap shots at the Australians and Americans. These groups are quick to criticise what they disagree with and so so slow to acknowledge the huge effort that both nations put into the Pacific and beyond. Let me make this as clear as possible. We need the United States, as well as Australia, to be intimately engaged in the Pacific if we are to be successful in our own endeavours. We also believe the EU has a positive role to play. We need to work closely with the US and we need to have a positive forward-looking relationship. And there are significant efforts being made on both sides to achieve that. All too often commentators in this country are quick to gnaw at American vulnerabilities, lashing out hardest when the United States is confronting difficulties, rather than being more understanding, as friends should be at such times." Does he mean there should be no criticism of the US debacle in Iraq. That's an old tactic, like accusing critics of the Israeli government of being anti-semitic. And, btw, whats the anti-Aussie bit all about? Martynz	martynz (5445)
520991	2007-01-31 06:10:00	Winston is Chief US boot licker now . So he has to say these things . Aussie likes America . Personally I think we need to go back to the original democracy: Athenian democracy, depended on the popular assembly as sovereign authority . All decisions of state emanated from this body or had to be approved by it, and there were no restrictions on who could debate or propose in assembly meetings . This was direct democracy not rule through elected representatives . Unlike present democracy, citizens would convene and openly discuss and vote for elections . . As a society it benefited the majority, which were the middle and lower classes . The middle and lower classes received a voice , giving them power . The army was composed of citizens, whose active service and coordinated maneuvers expressed the spirit of the democratic polis . Citizens also served as jurors in court trials, and every judicial decision could be appealed to a citizen board . Most officials were selected by lot on grounds that any citizen could and should serve as administrator . A few key officials - the generals and imperial treasurers - were elected, usually from the nobility, but like all officials they were carefully assessed by the assembly and were removed or punished for faulty service . Terms of office were brief, further to encourage popular control . . They didn't just give them a smack on the hand either so they were very careful about what they promised .	pctek (84)
520992	2007-01-31 06:18:00	This anti-America trend pisses me off no end. People easily forget if it wasn't for the American's we'd all be speaking Japanese and the most career-minded Aucklander could aspire to pulling a rickshaw down Queen Street. As for Bush, maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong, but I can't think of many people with balls big enough to run a country after 9/11, and make the decisions that had to be made. He may have made bad decsions, frankly who the hell knows unless you got prime seats in the Situation Room, but at least he had the gonads to make them. Maybe America needs another plane into another building to stop the bloody whining. Now...where did I leave my Happy Place! :D	allblack (6574)
520993	2007-01-31 06:43:00	Tough, As much as America finally pulled their weight in WW2 (only after getting their ass kicked mind you) that doesn't give them free reign to rampage around the world invading any country they see fit. Guaranteed once they stop invading the anti-American torrent will subside. Personally I hope that if they keep on pulling these stunts that someone gets the balls to once again attack them on their own soil, How fitting if a bunch of Arab countries lob a nuke or 2 at them, I'm in no way surprised that Iran and North Korea are making it known that they are armed. As much as I was disgusted my the opposition put forward by France and Russia before the invasion of Iraq it is now plain as day that they were right to object, and perhaps in the future the "terrorists" having to battle the American's in their own country will be known as the resistance?....	Metla (12)
520994	2007-01-31 07:18:00	Tough, As much as America finally pulled their weight in WW2 (only after getting their ass kicked mind you) that doesn't give them free reign to rampage around the world invading any country they see fit. Guaranteed once they stop invading the anti-American torrent will subside. Personally I hope that if they keep on pulling these stunts that someone gets the balls to once again attack them on their own soil, How fitting if a bunch of Arab countries lob a nuke or 2 at them, I'm in no way surprised that Iran and North Korea are making it known that they are armed. As much as I was disgusted my the opposition put forward by France and Russia before the invasion of Iraq it is now plain as day that they were right to object, and perhaps in the future the "terrorists" having to battle the American's in their own country will be known as the resistance?.... Melta Iraq was never about Terrorism, it was about regional influence and control of resources (oil). Sadam was originally fairly pro West, and was easy to manipulate. This all changed during the late 80's and early 90's. Originally when many stated 911 was carried out by the US government I laughed my head off. But clearly 911 gave the US government a lot of power at home and a reason to do nearly anything, I am not laughing now (especially when you look at picks of the second plane that hit the WTC just for starters). Some evidence in plane view and nobody seems to care. Oh and allblack, don't get me started on WW2. The US made billions on it and came out a rich country, its easy to win a race when you start half way through lol. The US needs to thank England and Russia for holding off the Germans and splitting there forces in two, US heroes, I think not.	Master_Frost (9951)
520995	2007-01-31 07:25:00	Tough, As much as America finally pulled their weight in WW2 (only after getting their ass kicked mind you) that doesn't give them free reign to rampage around the world invading any country they see fit. Guaranteed once they stop invading the anti-American torrent will subside. Personally I hope that if they keep on pulling these stunts that someone gets the balls to once again attack them on their own soil, How fitting if a bunch of Arab countries lob a nuke or 2 at them, I'm in no way surprised that Iran and North Korea are making it known that they are armed. As much as I was disgusted my the opposition put forward by France and Russia before the invasion of Iraq it is now plain as day that they were right to object, and perhaps in the future the "terrorists" having to battle the American's in their own country will be known as the resistance?.... Crap. The anti-American torrent will subside? Terrorists will put their toys back in the sandbox and we'll all sit around and sing Kumbyah? That genie is out of the bottle. It ain't going back. Invade any country they like? Works for me. Though that's a wonderful perception borne out by all the peaceniks.... Yeah...takes balls flying a plane or two into a building. Of course, martyrdom has nothing to do with it. These dumb ****s wouldn't know what balls were...they just have their heads screwed up from Day 1 believing the West is the root of all evil.	allblack (6574)
520996	2007-01-31 07:28:00	Melta Oh and allblack, don't get me started on WW2 . The US made billions on it and came out a rich country, its easy to win a race when you start half way through lol . Hahaha . . . I don't completely disagree with that!	allblack (6574)
520997	2007-01-31 08:14:00	Crap. The anti-American torrent will subside? Terrorists will put their toys back in the sandbox and we'll all sit around and sing Kumbyah? That genie is out of the bottle. It ain't going back. Invade any country they like? Works for me. Though that's a wonderful perception borne out by all the peaceniks.... Twice as stupid as I thought, The anti-American torrent from americas Allies, Not from the towel heads. You think the damn fools couldn't pause for thought when the entire world has had a gutfull of them starting wars they cant win in places they have no right to be in causing untold death and hardship? You keep on suporting that though, Sounds like a excellent Plan A, Too stupid to come up with a Plan B (hey, lets send more troops over to die, It hasn't worked so far)	Metla (12)
520998	2007-01-31 08:24:00	Twice as stupid as I thought, The anti-American torrent from americas Allies, Not from the towel heads . You think the damn fools couldn't pause for thought when the entire world has had a gutfull of them starting wars they cant win in places they have no right to be in causing untold death and hardship? You keep on suporting that though, Sounds like a excellent Plan A, Too stupid to come up with a Plan B (hey, lets send more troops over to die, It hasn't worked so far) Damn I'd love to get into this! But with the week I'm having, I might hold fire for now . This ain't going anywhere . . . . . the thread, not topic . Fortunately for most of us . . . . the Americans seem to be capable of making their own decisions, irrespective of the sandal-wearing brigade that claims the world is a wonderful, safe place and we should just let democracy die it's natural death . Be interesting to see how many posts you can make Metla when your (God-given?) right to free-speech has gone . That said . . . . I do support your comment regarding sending more troops over there . I agree with what they are doing, though not necessarily with the way they are doing it .	allblack (6574)
520999	2007-01-31 08:30:00	bah, Free speech? I'd shoot who ever tried to take it away, Be they towel heads or Yankees or Kiwi's. The sooner the rest of the world starts ignoring America the better for all, and a few nukes over into sand country for good measure.	Metla (12)
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