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Thread ID: 76662	2007-02-08 09:28:00	4WD vs Passenger vehicle.	Sweep (90)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
523875	2007-02-14 01:01:00	Oh dear, what a lot of anti-4WD tosh . 1 . No-one suggests banning trucks, utes, and vans all of which present the same risks . 2 . They are strong comfortable vehicles . 3 . The fact that some people don't go off-road is a red-herring . We live in an open democracy and people can drive what they choose . 4 . 4WDs have great vision for the driver being high above the road . Passengers, especially children don't get carsick because they can see the horizon better . 5 . They are spacious and capable of carrying heavy loads and often more people than a standard car . This is important when you start ferrying kids and their friends around . 6 . Good safe towing vehicles . 7 . I agree that bull-bars are dangerous and unnecessary .	Winston001 (3612)
523876	2007-02-14 06:30:00	Wow! I read all that! I swear! (not) yea, i kinda got carried away a bit there:o those 'mummy vans' are good for long trips, kids and cargo and are safer too the reason we don't ***** and moan about trucks is they are actually used for what they were designed for, ie. work vehicles. and SUVs do not have better visibility, they are a foot higher from the ground, but drivers cannot see what is immediately around them nor behind them, and in traffic all it does is blocks other road users' view on that tv3 thing that woman set my bull**** detector right off the scale with "the 4WD is better for the nature of my work" why didn't she say what she does, and if she needs cargo space why not get a van or station wagon.	motorbyclist (188)
523877	2007-02-14 06:30:00	a lot of farmers around here have SUV's (usualy mid sized) as a second vechile. they are good vechiles for country conditions and a bit nicer than the farm ute ;) string vechiles? thats debatable. comfortable yes and no. they are not that comfortable to drive compared to a car. tho some 4x4's try to make up for it with lazyboy chairs and big soft pillows LOL. ok not quite but you get the idea. great vision, yes the vision is better but it also removes some of the speed sensation which is not good. suvs, 4x4's are great tow vechiles and are good at large loads. however for what most usage they really do get a people mover would be far better suited. don't forget majority of vechiles have still only have one person in them. the other thing i find interesting is the amount of the large SUV/4x4 when the mid sized SUV is much better suited and will do the same job cheaper. ie they carry the same load, have the same towing rating etc but smaller in size and smaller motors.	tweak'e (69)
523878	2007-02-14 07:55:00	Oh dear, what a lot of anti-4WD tosh . 1 . No-one suggests banning trucks, utes, and vans all of which present the same risks . 2 . They are strong comfortable vehicles . 3 . The fact that some people don't go off-road is a red-herring . We live in an open democracy and people can drive what they choose . 4 . 4WDs have great vision for the driver being high above the road . Passengers, especially children don't get carsick because they can see the horizon better . 5 . They are spacious and capable of carrying heavy loads and often more people than a standard car . This is important when you start ferrying kids and their friends around . 6 . Good safe towing vehicles . 7 . I agree that bull-bars are dangerous and unnecessary . So you drive one then I take it (or friends and family) . Yes, people can drive what they like, but I can also dislike them if I wish too . Just because they are strong doesn't mean they are safe(r) in an accident . They tend to roll over when people over correct when you drift off the road, normal cars tend not to do that . 4WD's have more single vehicle accidents than other vehicles . We are considering buying a caravan . To tow it, if I was to keep up with the Jones I would go and buy a Ford Territory but I think I will get a Maxima or even a station wagon (sooo last century to use a stupid expression) .	dolby digital (5073)
523879	2007-02-14 08:17:00	You guys have convinced me to leave my 4X4 parked up, only to come out for towing and weekend off road use. LOL... what a load of.... There are some seriously desturbed people in here... chill out a bit... and remember when you see a big 4X4 in you way, take a deep breath and wait untill it moves along. Dont you realise us 4X4 people are way more important than you guys.	Rob99 (151)
523880	2007-02-14 08:31:00	3. The fact that some people don't go off-road is a red-herring. We live in an open democracy and people can drive what they choose.This argument's a red herring - I can't choose to drive a tank or Armored Personnel Carrier just 'cos I live in a democracy. I don't think limiting peoples' right to drive/own SUVs conflicts with democracy at all. 6. Good safe towing vehicles.SUVs may be safer for people inside them but not necessarily the outside.	luvdoctor (11855)
523881	2007-02-14 09:07:00	I would love to have a 4WD but can't afford it. I like the height. Newer ones come with sensors (front and back) and some even come with a camera at the back. The driver has a screen at the front to see whether the coast at the back is clear. With these gadgets, it's going to cost more. Some of you mentioned correctly. There are vans, utes, MPVs, etc. MPVs are common in NZ and the rear view is as bad as the SUVs. With tinted rear and back windows, the view is worst at night. I just realised some of the bull bars on Japanese SUVs are made of plastic. So its for aesthetic purpose rather than safety for the SUV. So I conclude its the attitude of drivers (regardless of the cars they drive) that makes driving safe or pain for all.	Taurus (9579)
523882	2007-02-14 09:34:00	crumple zones are to lessen the impact on your body, even with them you need a seatbelt . the idea is that as the force is spread over a greater time there is less maximum force exerted on your body/organs . it's like jumping onto cement or a matress; you still stop but the cement does much more damage . the safest cars are the ones where the front/rear completely crumple, but the cabin stays intact, so the doors still open and no-one is crushed inside . 30 years ago crumple zones were new-fangled nonsense and people complained that they added to new car costs, but one night while driving a new Toyota Corolla SW I was hit head-on on the open road (the dreaded Upper Harbour Drive near Hobsonville) by a Mk III Ford Cortina . Impact speed was well over 180km/hr and the Toyota was folded right back to the firewall, engine underneath and steering wheel up at the roof . But, the driver's door still opened and I walked away with minor injuries only . The MKIII didn't fare so well but the driver and passenger survived . Point here is this: crumple-zones work, but if the other party is in a ladder-chassis FWD (with or without any crumple zones) then there is little chance of a good outcome for either party, and when people try to drive them like cars, they are likely to lose control and the stats show that in those circumstances they are killers . I say ban bullbars, make rearview TV compulsory, and introduce a 4WD endorsement on the driver's license compulsory, obtained by passing a special driving and handling test . Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
523883	2007-02-14 09:57:00	And on that note, I was rear ended by a late model commodore a few years ago, wrote it off, And I could see a barely detectable bend in the bracket my tow ball was mounted to,...But only if I squinted,poked my tongue out and rolled my head to the side. anyway, I believe stupid people will make stupid decisions and crash, No matter what they are driving, Ive done it a few times myself, strangely enough I never considered it was the wagons fault. I'm all for banning ball-bars for city dwellers though.	Metla (12)
523884	2007-02-14 10:14:00	OK. Now to tell you where I am coming from. I live on my own. I have the need for only ONE vehicle and this has two seats. I can put two rear seats in if I desire. I have done this from time to time. I choose to use the space behind to carry golf clubs, camping gear, books, tools, groceries, pool cue, garden rubbish, computers to the club or for repair, A BBQ to a friend's place etc. Not all at the same time of course. I have a drivers licence which covers classes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, D, F, R, T, W. Driven NZR buses out of Rotorua in the past. Tilt tray tow truck in Australia as well. In the morning (tomorrow) I will be driving a 6 ton truck off road alongside a harvester. When loaded this truck will be around 15 tonnes. Loading with Maize Silage. This is off road as last time I looked maize does not grow on a road. My one vehicle of choice is a RAV4 with no Bullbar. For those of you that may choose to drive a Van (like Couriers) and park in a shopping mall I would suggest you lower the Van so I can see over. :-) Should I buy two vehicles and go to work on a motor bike? This will mean two registrations, WOF and insurance. Anything I drive is inclined to be on the left side of the road which is a fairly good idea. It is not a good idea to go to	Sweep (90)
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