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Thread ID: 76965	2007-02-22 07:31:00	New Car...but	rogerp (6864)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
527125	2007-02-22 19:27:00	Korean stuff isn't all that good . . and in US standards, don't hold up to driving long distances very well . . . or very long . Broken Kia cams are a real trouble . . and that's just to start . But . . . BROKEN CAMES are not even a happenstance in other engines . . why do the Kias have this problem? Also, check out the timing belt replacement intervals . . they're pretty short here in the US . . . . some every 20,000 miles or about 1/3rd the normal time lapse for other engines . Looking for a 2nd opinion I found this "In the past, Hyundai has jointly developed all its diesel engines in collaboration with Detroit Diesel, a subsidiary of DaimlerCrysler AG . " Is there a language problem?	PaulD (232)
527126	2007-02-22 21:30:00	Looking for a 2nd opinion I found this "In the past, Hyundai has jointly developed all its diesel engines in collaboration with Detroit Diesel, a subsidiary of DaimlerCrysler AG . " Is there a language problem? It's news to me that General Motors (GM) ever gave up Detroit Diesel . . . which has for as long as I can remember been a held company of GM . That association allowed GM to use the faithful old 8 . 2l V8 Toro-Flo engine in their local and light diesel applications . When I read that General Motors formed the GM Diesel Division . . . . the ancestor to Detroit Diesel . . . . back in 1938, I remembered that the trucking world was and would never be the same . With World War II their first engines were compact, lightweight, two-cycle products developed to power standby generators, tanks, landing craft and road building equipment . A tradition of strength, quality and dependability was born . On January 1, 1988, a joint venture between Penske Coroporation and General Motors created the Detroit Diesel Corporation (DDC), the successor to the heavy-duty diesel engine business of the Detroit Diesel Allison Division . The Detroit 60-Series ( . detroitdiesel . com/engines/series60/default . aspx" target="_blank">www . detroitdiesel . com) engine have yet to be equaled in power per gallon of fuel, ultimate horsepower per BTU and other benchmarks that are too complicated to show here . But, as I have learned from research for this post . . . . indeed Detroit Diesel is now in the hands of the enemy: "Today, DDC is a subsidiary of DaimlerChrysler AG—designing, manufacturing, selling and servicing a complete line of medium and heavy-duty diesel and alternative fuel engines for the commercial vehicle market . " My information was dated to say the least . . . but not heartfelt! Makes me ill . Now . . . the "development" part . . . . equals not very much if indeed it is accurate . As an example Ford trucks had the International Harvester engine after IHC decided to get out of the gas and the small diesel engine market . In taking note that the Ford pickup trucks had pretty weak suspension and could not hold the engine weight well and the trucks all got that "bowed-out" wheel appearance soon after getting off the showroom floor, Ford lightened the engines hundreds of pounds . . . from guess where? The heads, crank and the block . . . what else was left? The result was an engine that could not maintain seal integrity at the head/block gasket, and they all . . . ALL failed to hold coolant in a short time . When the block was cold, you could insert a butter knife between the head and the block at the extreme corners of the front and rear edges of the heads near the intake plenum . After the engine achieved normal operational temps, the surface would close up like a book and become more normal . Worse yet was the fact that FoMoCo decided to stick with an inferior gasket manufacturer and didn't go to Felpro ( . car-stuff . com/felproheadgasket . htm" target="_blank">www . car-stuff . com) for better gasket engineering . They saved a few pennies per vehicle . . . but Ford is on the chopping block now with their vastly inferior current run of engines that appear to leak, blow out spark plugs (V-10 Tritons and especially the 5 . 2l and 4 . 6l engines, rendering them fodder for complete replacement . Repairs to the heads have so far not been very successful . (How's that, Mr . Barnum?) Felpro had a bellows-like device that could quite successfully handle the opening and closing of the head for multiple thermal cycles before it too would fail . So much for "developing and collaboration" of things . . . too many cooks and a few bean counters spoiled a really good design from IHC . And again . . . if there's a Chrysler engineer in the works of (Korean) Kia . . . (Lee would have sex with a snake if someone would hold it's head) ( . uni-magdeburg . de/mfett/Taken%20for%20a%20Ride . html" target="_blank">www-e . uni-magdeburg . de) I'd run screaming into the woods . (Whatever Chrysler has touched has been ultimately failure, although the yuppies will buy everything we tell them to) ( . wikipedia . org/wiki/DaimlerChrysler" target="_blank">en . wikipedia . org) . . . of late anyway . . . we aren't counting vehicles manufactured up to about 1972 or so . Iacocca ( . slate . com/?id=2068448" target="_blank">www . slate . com) [Lido Anthony "Lee" Iacocca] ("There's a sucker born every minute and we are gonna sell 'em Chryslers") ( . bbc . co . uk/1/hi/business/1043934 . stm" target="_blank">news . bbc . co . uk) . . . will be found to be the P . T . Barnum [see reference A] of the auto industry . . . he killed Ford . . . he's into the rut with MoPar now . [Ref A]: Is it fair to call Arnold Schwarzenegger "The P . T . Barnum "of California Politics? ( . yahoo . com/question/index?qid=20070122192050AAVPKrb" target="_blank">answers . yahoo . com) I know! . . . there are two spellings of Barnum's name! This is just to show the contempt and dislike of PT Barnum by most people in the US as an example, not to slam the Governator . (Sorry, Arnie!)	SurferJoe46 (51)
527127	2007-02-22 21:31:00	Looking for a 2nd opinion I found this "In the past, Hyundai has jointly developed all its diesel engines in collaboration with Detroit Diesel, a subsidiary of DaimlerCrysler AG." Is there a language problem? ...sorry for the typo..it shouldda been: "cams" in the second part.	SurferJoe46 (51)
527128	2007-02-22 22:18:00	Thanks, I think the Jap sedans around that are diesel tend to be Jap imports rather than new cars . Diesel engines tend to have more torque and more than their petrol equivalents . Also the new ones are cheaper to service and are supposedly more environmentally friendly than petrol . You can also go a lot further on a litre of diesel than you can on a litre of petrol . This is one of the reasons parliament are going to diesel vehicles . There are pros and cons for both, but diesel is that way I want to go . more torque yes . . . but if you don't have a load to carry you won't actually use it . yes you can get better km's on a litre of diesel but that varies depending on motor and setup . the difference between loaded and unloaded is not a lot . this has been part of a discussion on the new nissan utes . some of them have been getting 10k/l empty and 11k/l full . "the new ones are cheaper to service" . . yes/no . they are suppose to be cheaper to service but in reality there is stuff all difference . in fact some are down right dearer eg can't recon injectors anymore you can only replace them . also some of the claimed service interval is a little optimistic, they are finding the same sort of problems as if you didn't service an old style motor enough . lastly you pay the same tax regardless of fuel usage so you pay very little extra to run a 3 litre motor compared to a 2 litre motor . the gov way of doing tax punishes small diesels .	tweak'e (69)
527129	2007-02-22 22:29:00	Thanks, I think the Jap sedans around that are diesel tend to be Jap imports rather than new cars. Diesel engines tend to have more torque and more than their petrol equivalents. Also the new ones are cheaper to service and are supposedly more environmentally friendly than petrol. You can also go a lot further on a litre of diesel than you can on a litre of petrol. This is one of the reasons parliament are going to diesel vehicles. There are pros and cons for both, but diesel is that way I want to go. More torque?, cheaper to service?, more mileage?, are you kidding?....i dont think so bud.... I know for a fact, diesels cost more to maintain than petrol. Mileage, I dont think there is much in it, torque, well, petrol motors rev higher giving more power, cant imagine they have more torque like for like litre motors?!	SolMiester (139)
527130	2007-02-22 22:49:00	Hyundai make a Turbo Diesel Getz. $24990. http://www.hyundai.co.nz/ Trevor :)	Trev (427)
527131	2007-02-22 23:01:00	The registration for diesel vehicles is more expensive than it is for petrol vehicles.	FoxyMX (5)
527132	2007-02-22 23:12:00	More torque?, cheaper to service?, more mileage?, are you kidding? . . . . i dont think so bud . . . . I know for a fact, diesels cost more to maintain than petrol . Mileage, I dont think there is much in it, torque, well, petrol motors rev higher giving more power, cant imagine they have more torque like for like litre motors?! most of this is with the new type diesels . unfortunately due to the old crappy fuel we used to have its only recently they have started bringing in the high powered diesels . they are meant to have car like service intervals (10,000km/20,000km between oil changes) however our fuel is still nothing like what in europe and japan . in reality you can do 10,000km oil changes IF you are kind to them . to be honest its probably better to go back to the old 5000km oil change interval . the new high EGR that these motors run increases the soot levels which goes into the oil and causes more wear etc . its hard to compare litre to litre . a 3litre turbo diesel has more torque than a 3 litre petrol . some of them are more like a 5 litre V8 . (i think BMW's 3 . 2 litre turbo diesel is quicker than the 4 litre V8 petrol they have) . downside of the diesel is they don't have the revs so actual HP is often not as good . also the lack of revs makes it hard to get the right gearing for the job . you loose a lot of speed simply because you can't keep the motor on song . this is why the utes are all coming out with 6 speed manuals now .	tweak'e (69)
527133	2007-02-22 23:17:00	I would have suggested a Toyota. Mines done 287,000 Km and its motor is perfect. But dunno if there is a Toyota desiel. Why you want one anyway.........husband has a desiel - the next ute he gets will be petrol. It costs heaps for the rego, heaps for the fuel now - when you consider the road tax as well, its no longer worth it. And they are gutless.	pctek (84)
527134	2007-02-22 23:24:00	most of this is with the new type diesels . unfortunately due to the old crappy fuel we used to have its only recently they have started bringing in the high powered diesels . they are meant to have car like service intervals (10,000km/20,000km between oil changes) however our fuel is still nothing like what in europe and japan . in reality you can do 10,000km oil changes IF you are kind to them . to be honest its probably better to go back to the old 5000km oil change interval . the new high EGR that these motors run increases the soot levels which goes into the oil and causes more wear etc . its hard to compare litre to litre . a 3litre turbo diesel has more torque than a 3 litre petrol . some of them are more like a 5 litre V8 . (i think BMW's 3 . 2 litre turbo diesel is quicker than the 4 litre V8 petrol they have) . downside of the diesel is they don't have the revs so actual HP is often not as good . also the lack of revs makes it hard to get the right gearing for the job . you loose a lot of speed simply because you can't keep the motor on song . this is why the utes are all coming out with 6 speed manuals now . ok . . . interesting . . .	SolMiester (139)
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