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Thread ID: 79104	2007-05-08 07:23:00	Legacy of Agent Orange on the Vietnamese	vinref (6194)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
548264	2007-05-08 07:23:00	You always hear about what it did to Western soldiers who served there. But never about what it did to the Vietnamese (todayspictures.slate.com). Jesus H Christ these warmongers are horrible people. Warning: These people aren't pretty. Courtesy of Reddit.	vinref (6194)
548265	2007-05-08 07:50:00	Vietnamese were considered to be only "gooks". So they don't count. To make matters even worse, they actually defeated the US. Lt Calley was in charge of a group which committed a massacre of 300 odd women and children in My Lai (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre). He was tried by a US military court and sentenced to 2 years, and pardoned by Nixon after doing a few months. This is one case which didn't get covered up. Many cases were. The effects of napalm were immediate. The effects of the dioxin in Agent Orange were delayed. The effects on those who handled it are what get publicity in our media. The effects on the people who had it dumped on them (so had many times the exposure) are much worse. By (US) definition, no US soldier or politician can commit a war crime. Ever. It's only foreigners who do that.	Graham L (2)
548266	2007-05-08 07:51:00	And we all remember that image of that young girl running to the cameraman. One image I will never forget	bob_doe_nz (92)
548267	2007-05-08 08:04:00	And we all remember that image of that young girl running to the cameraman. One image I will never forget __________________ I love the smell of bacon in the morning !?	vinref (6194)
548268	2007-05-08 08:19:00	!? Kim Phuc: www.ee.princeton.edu	Terry Porritt (14)
548269	2007-05-08 08:31:00	You missed it Terry. :( vinref was referring to bob_doe's unfortunate signature. I'll never understand why these foreigners aren't grateful for having "democracy and freedom" being given to them in such a caring and generous way. Would we all be Catholics if the Inquisition had had the benefits of a few more centuries of development of soul-saving technology?	Graham L (2)
548270	2007-05-08 08:34:00	Makes you wonder what monstrous tales (other than those already told) will come out of Iraq and Afghanistan? And to think they wanted to invade Iran as well.	vinref (6194)
548271	2007-05-08 09:12:00	You missed it Terry. :( vinref was referring to bob_doe's unfortunate signature. I'll never understand why these foreigners aren't grateful for having "democracy and freedom" being given to them in such a caring and generous way. Would we all be Catholics if the Inquisition had had the benefits of a few more centuries of development of soul-saving technology? Indeed I did miss the point, though it dimly penetrated that vinref had made the signature bold :( The West (read US) does seem keen on enforcing democracy at the point of a gun, "You will have democracy, even if we have to kill everyone of you ungrateful wretches".	Terry Porritt (14)
548272	2007-05-08 09:22:00	The West (read US) does seem keen on enforcing democracy at the point of a gun, "You will have democracy, even if we have to kill everyone of you ungrateful wretches". The democracy excuse has long worn thin though. The US has assisted, actively participated in, or orchestrated the overthrow of democratically-elected governments (South America, Middle East). It completely ignores other cases where it could exercise its democratising influence (e.g., in Africa).	vinref (6194)
548273	2007-05-08 23:24:00	Vietnamese were considered to be only "gooks" . So they don't count . To make matters even worse, they actually defeated the US . Lt Calley was in charge of a group which committed a massacre of 300 odd women and children in My Lai (en . wikipedia . org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre) . He was tried by a US military court and sentenced to 2 years, and pardoned by Nixon after doing a few months . This is one case which didn't get covered up . Many cases were . The effects of napalm were immediate . The effects of the dioxin in Agent Orange were delayed . The effects on those who handled it are what get publicity in our media . The effects on the people who had it dumped on them (so had many times the exposure) are much worse . By (US) definition, no US soldier or politician can commit a war crime . Ever . It's only foreigners who do that . OK . . . let's talk Calley for a moment . He was an army mustang officer who got roasted by some career brigadier generals and higher-ups who ordered the massacre, and then turned over on Calley as a scapegoat . I was poisoned by Agent Orange . . I mixed it in the 55 gallon barrels with my hands and arms on the flightdeck of the carrier I was on . . . . . . I was "in-country" for a while and ate the indigenous foodstuffs, drank the beer with the local water in the form of ice and breathed in the same air . Truth be known, the real story is with the Koreans who used agent orange in a non-mixed or non-dissolved version for years to clear the DMZ there . It was in PURE FORM without any mixing to make it spread further . They didn't (or couldn't) read the instructions in English . The one surprising thought is that no-one even asked why they needed so damned much of the stuff . The Korean Regulars used it straight outta the drum! Show me some pictures of those deformities! I am NOT defending war . . but there's a lot more to both those situations that were inherited from the French by the UN . . . and it's favorite whipping boy, the US as it's army of choice to "defend the rights of people in the world" when the French and Belgians walked out when they couldn't handle the situation(s) . . both of them! I am sorry for the kids and old folks who "got in the way" . . . but I had friends who came back brain-dead from all the carnage too . . it isn't just the NZ version that's right . . . everyone was disgusted with the wars . Sadly, most all of the "friendlies-by-day" were also "guerrillas-by-night" Please don't take some photo of a child as testament of the war and chemicals that were used there . It was horrible and should never have happened . . . but be careful whose photos and captions are used . I too, suffer from the war . . . in my lungs and bones with osteoporosis and nightmares of the killings that even I saw . . . I saw a "Mary-Sue" (a small water craft that usually brings laundry, candy and food from shore to the sailors who are on-board the ship while the rest of the crew is ashore), getting microwaved by a high powered dish when she got too close to the ship I was on . . I heard the people being cooked in their own skin . . . the screams and then the silence . I relive that every once in a while . It ain't just the agent orange . . . it was everything about the war that generally sucked . :xmouth:	SurferJoe46 (51)
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