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Thread ID: 79158	2007-05-10 05:08:00	New Zealand Electoral System	KenESmith (6287)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
548775	2007-05-10 23:53:00	No sitting member should have the right to hedge their bets and stand for an electorate and also be on the list, they should have to choose one or the other- why should members whose constituents want them out get a second bite at the cherry . Good on you for posting your ideas . I disagree with your above point . A perfectly capable candidate can lose an electorate seat vote . For example, if Labour/Greens etc had a good candidate in Fendalton, the National candidate would still win . Why shouldn't the losing candidate(s) be on their party list?	Winston001 (3612)
548776	2007-05-11 06:26:00	Well written points Mr Smith,pity that no matter how well points put,nothing changes.	Cicero (40)
548777	2007-05-11 06:44:00	Also this from McCully . . . . . . . . . Tuesday’s Australian Federal Budget was no doubt designed to lay down the domestic political gauntlet to the Australian Labour Party . In fact, it constitutes an equally serious challenge to the New Zealand economy . Five successive years of tax cuts and growing after-tax wages in Australia have now raised the trans-Tasman gap in after-tax incomes close to the 40% mark . Those with choices – those with capital and skills – can hardly fail to notice . Which is why the numbers moving from New Zealand to Australia have topped 700 per week over the past year . New Zealand’s Budget will be presented on Thursday of next week . But already Dr Cullen is signalling that there will be no attempt to move down the Australian path of lower taxes . Australia maintains its place in the middle of the OECD ranking for per capita GDP . New Zealand, which has dropped to 22nd out of 30, is now destined to fall further . Until, of course, a government is elected that is prepared to put wealth creation, rather than wealth re-distribution, at the top of the national agenda . Zwerty will want to pack his bags and join the merry bands .	Cicero (40)
548778	2007-05-11 09:37:00	In answer to Winston 001, the scenario you suggested cannot occur, as the only person contesting Fendalton not eligible to go on a party list would be the sitting National member for Fendalton - the proposition is that if a sitting electorate member wishes to stand for the same seat in the next election, the (s)he should not be also on a party list - ie choose one or the other but no hedging bets and two bites at the cherry. As it stands a high ranking electoral; member who may be just a long term seat warner (ie useless), or thoroughly loathed by his electorate constituents, keeps his place in parliament if he is sufficiently highly ranked on the list. As a thought, how much time can a busy cabinet minister devote to handling issues for his constituents whom he is supposedly representing.	KenESmith (6287)
548779	2007-05-11 10:03:00	Ken, you're in Queensland now. Are you worried about the NZ political landscape because there's no chance you'll ever change the one you've joined?	PaulD (232)
548780	2007-05-11 13:50:00	To the contrary Paul, the Australian political system for its faults is far superior to the kiwi system, to start with they have a bicameral system compared to NZs unicameral system, with a preferential voting system,and as such there are superior protections against abuse of power. I didn't come to Australia to change anything - I came here to run a small business for 3 years and then retire, because we golden oldies get a far superior deal to NZ, and because the Australian economy is not only far stronger, but much more dynamic. I am one of those rare kiwis that believe NZ would be better off as the 7th state of Australia, not that it would be contemplated by most kiwis, and there are not too many advantages for Australia for them to want it. I am concerned about the way New Zealand has been heading for many years, and just because I no longer live in NZ it doesn't mean I don't care.Over the past twenty five years New Zealand Society has polarised in far too many ways, less caring, more divided and less safe - who do you blame for that - the politicians, they are the ones who create the environment that caused the changes - all the little people can do if they don't like the direction society is going, is to act together to compel the politicians to listen to them. With the electoral system in NZ, it is too hard to make the pollies listen to what they don't want to hear. Its a politicians benefit. Whether we like to accept it or not, NZ is a virtual parliamentary dictatorship, where every three years the people get the chance to change the dictator.	KenESmith (6287)
548781	2007-05-12 04:31:00	... As a thought, how much time can a busy cabinet minister devote to handling issues for his constituents whom he is supposedly representing?... Lots, if they have useful skills in the building trade.	Graham L (2)
548782	2007-05-12 06:22:00	To the contrary Paul, the Australian political system for its faults is far superior to the kiwi system, to start with they have a bicameral system compared to NZs unicameral system, with a preferential voting system,and as such there are superior protections against abuse of power. I didn't come to Australia to change anything - I came here to run a small business for 3 years and then retire, because we golden oldies get a far superior deal to NZ, and because the Australian economy is not only far stronger, but much more dynamic. I am one of those rare kiwis that believe NZ would be better off as the 7th state of Australia, not that it would be contemplated by most kiwis, and there are not too many advantages for Australia for them to want it. I am concerned about the way New Zealand has been heading for many years, and just because I no longer live in NZ it doesn't mean I don't care.Over the past twenty five years New Zealand Society has polarised in far too many ways, less caring, more divided and less safe - who do you blame for that - the politicians, they are the ones who create the environment that caused the changes - all the little people can do if they don't like the direction society is going, is to act together to compel the politicians to listen to them. With the electoral system in NZ, it is too hard to make the pollies listen to what they don't want to hear. Its a politicians benefit. Whether we like to accept it or not, NZ is a virtual parliamentary dictatorship, where every three years the people get the chance to change the dictator. Well put Ken!	johcar (6283)
548783	2007-05-12 06:54:00	You make good points Ken. Personally I like the Single Transferable Vote system - is that in OZ? As for a bicarmel system - NZ is smaller than the State of New South Wales. Really, the last thing we need is yet another level of bureacracy and more politicians. I was in Oz recently talking to Kiwis who were immensely frustrated with how slow everything was. Firstly a business has to deal with the local Council, then the State Government, the Trade Unions, and if anyone is unhappy, the Federal MPs get involved. Oz is also surprisingly behind NZ in that there are a lot more rules and regulations. Also no pin numbers for credit cards which seemed odd. However I'm sure there are lots of positives too. I'd be happy to adopt the Oz $ and some of their laws - which is happening.	Winston001 (3612)
548784	2007-05-12 07:35:00	You make good points Ken. Personally I like the Single Transferable Vote system - is that in OZ? As for a bicarmel system - NZ is smaller than the State of New South Wales. Really, the last thing we need is yet another level of bureacracy and more politicians. I was in Oz recently talking to Kiwis who were immensely frustrated with how slow everything was. Firstly a business has to deal with the local Council, then the State Government, the Trade Unions, and if anyone is unhappy, the Federal MPs get involved. Oz is also surprisingly behind NZ in that there are a lot more rules and regulations. Also no pin numbers for credit cards which seemed odd. However I'm sure there are lots of positives too. I'd be happy to adopt the Oz $ and some of their laws - which is happening. LOL, more laws still? We have laws dribbling out of every orifice - and still they make more. Laws tend to benefit legal practitioners, that is why they make them. Logic or justice has very little to do with it if you stand back a bit. The legal system by and large enables the strong to overwhelm the weak and adds an infinitude of parasites sap-sucking both sides. Gangs, by virtue of intimiidation ignore legal restraints. Larger corporates frequently do the same. "They ought to do something about it". ;) I also would happily adopt a few $$ wherever they come from and provide them with a good home.	R2x1 (4628)
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