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Thread ID: 79000	2007-05-05 04:40:00	smacking bill amendment passed,bill WILL pass	markh (12164)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
547269	2007-05-06 07:19:00	Chris - in historical terms it isn't so long ago that men owned their wives, criminals were publicly whipped, and children worked and died in coal mines and factories. Discipline by parents and the law was harsh and unrelenting. I don't think you want to go back to those ways. You are right in the essence what you say but you need to define discipline. I'd suggest it has nothing to do with being smacked but rather learning self respect and respect for others including animals. Right from wrong. But then, I'm just a frustrated hippy stuck in a white collar job. :D	Winston001 (3612)
547270	2007-05-06 08:10:00	I've stayed away from this debate but what the heck - I'm pleased the law will be changed. Parents think they can beat their children. Now they'll think twice. Uh, No they wont, Beating your child was already against the law. People that beat their children don't give a rats backside about the old law, the new law or any debate taking place on the issue. The government passing laws to designate me a criminal doesn't help any child in a home where they get beaten. Kids in unsafe homes are still at risk.	Metla (12)
547271	2007-05-06 08:12:00	Think I might just buy a Pitball.:badpc:	Metla (12)
547272	2007-05-06 08:43:00	[quote=Winston001;548918]Chris - in historical terms it isn't so long ago that men owned their wives, criminals were publicly whipped, and children worked and died in coal mines and factories. Discipline by parents and the law was harsh and unrelenting. I don't think you want to go back to those ways. You are right in the essence what you say but you need to define discipline. I'd suggest it has nothing to do with being smacked but rather learning self respect and respect for others including animals. Right from wrong. But then, I'm just a frustrated hippy stuck in a white collar job. :D[/quote Unfortunately there is no Right/Wrong, Black/White etc. Life is all shades of Grey. I would like to bring in the stocks again as it happens. Public humiliation helps as disicipline. Let us take a hypothetical example:- I, being your next door neighbour, notice that you did not wander out at the usual time to get your newspaper. I decide to investigate. Being as you were preparing your usual carpet bag steaks for your brekkie you would have a knife in your hand to insert oysters. Your hand or knife slips and you open a self inflicted wound and there appears to me that there is red stuff leaking out. But you are still alive and breathing. I pick up the telephone and phone 111. No answer or you get someone whom has no local knowledge. Off my own bat I get you to my car and take you to medical assistance. In doing so I am over the speed limit and go through a speed camera at say 70 kmh in a 50 kmh area. Bear in mind you have breakfast at 0500%2	Sweep (90)
547273	2007-05-08 10:17:00	The problem with society is basically a lack of discipline and respect - and neither can be brought about being touchie feelie nice and letting children get away with blue murder - parents need to have a last resort sanction when a child will not to reason etc . The consequences of failure to bring children up with a sense of discipline both within the home environment and at school is potential anarchy. As a retired regular service officer, I can state with certainty that I have never met anyone who has been in a military prison who ever wishes to have a second experience of disciplinary therapy. This system worked extremely well with recalcitrant young adults, (consequences of unacceptable behaviour is something anyone can learn from experience0 I can tell a story about a friend whose wife had a very liberal humanitarian view on discipline, not incidently approved of by the husband who unfortunately had minimal input in the upbringing of the children. The amusing part came when their 16 year old son "stole" the fathers new Rover car with a mate and headed off north. The father received a call from the Kaitaia Police to advise him they were holding both his son and his car which had suffered damage in an accident, and requested he come and collect both. The father flew up from Auckland, and when he found the car was legally drivable announced that he better be getting back to Auckland - when the Police asked him about whether he wanted to lay a complaint against his son and friend, he responded, definitely, and in the meantime they are all yours . His wife refused to speak to him for qiuite some time, but in his opinion it was worth it. Moral it could have all been avoided with some early discipline and l;earning respect for other people and their property.	KenESmith (6287)
547274	2007-05-08 10:39:00	No arguments with that Ken. The trouble with all the anti-smacking furore is that some people automatically think discipline means hitting = physical violence. And they feel that as parents they have the right to hit their children. Using other methods of discipline is harder than hitting but ultimately better. Holding back from hitting your children doesn't mean no discipline. They can still be punished - time out, no TV, no pocket money, no cellphone, no computer, heck I even confiscated the childrens pillows one night which was such a novelty that we all ended up laughing. I know of people who have turned off their hot water so the kids face cold showers until they start acting responsibly.	Winston001 (3612)
547275	2007-05-08 11:23:00	Re: smacking bill amendment passed,bill WILL pass Prunes too, will pass. Making a law to cover peculiar people and inflicting it on all people is rather futile, expensive and stupid. Pretty standard really. What it cannot fail to achieve is a massive increase in legal costs for an incredibly remote chance of affecting the behaviour of those scum it is aimed at.	R2x1 (4628)
547276	2007-05-09 15:11:00	When I was growing up at home I faced 2 forms of Punishment. A smack from my dad, or some time out or a Ban (e.g. TV, Computer) from my mum. One guess which one I didn't want to catch me. The things I did when dad caught me, weren't done again. The things I did when Mum caught me usually happened 1-2 times more before I got sick of being banned from something. Smacking works...and is something totally different from beating. [EDIT] I'm 18 so I'm talking punishments around 1993-2003	Faded_Mantis (79)
547277	2007-05-11 12:41:00	Another child was killed in New Zealand he was 3years old, from the violent act of his parents. I am 2 sided on this bill, on one side i hope it passes, but i don't believe that it will stop parents from hitting/beating their children. On the other passing this bill will take the child out of the violent home and sorry to say put it in the care of social welfare that so far hasn't protected a minority of children from some idiotic foster parents, who probably wanted the money in the first place. Obviously "reasonable force" has been blown out the window when the child shows up to hospital dead, instant jail time served. If a child has whelps or bruising, a lawyer will argue reasonable force and i believe this is where the bill will come in and take that from the lawyers argument, because no jury can define what reasonable force is. Personally i believe that since its just the words "reasonable force" that is causing the problem, they should just change reasonable force to light smack, solves the problem doesn't it? No lawyer can argue that the parent lightly smacked the child if the child was beaten with a baseball bat, jug cord or other object that caused Whelps? However, If a adult lays a finger on another adult, uninvited that person would be charged with assult, where if you lay a finger on a child you will be let off the charge because it was done with reasonable force.... very unfair.	Narmie (12196)
547278	2007-05-11 13:30:00	But do you believe that any law or law change would have actually saved that 3 year old? We have stringent gun laws, but people are still shot all too frequently. Followng the Port Arthur massacre in Australia and Aramoana massacre in NZ, gun laws in both countries were tightened. That never worked, why does everyone assume this will work with amendment or not?	godfather (25)
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