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Thread ID: 80001	2007-06-08 07:19:00	Police charges dismissed	Cicero (40)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
557190	2007-06-09 09:51:00	About time the law makers {Parliament} get it right . thats it in a nutshell . laws are so open to interpretation and abuse of . they have been many discussions on firearms laws simply because none knows what the actual laws are . what the police say is allowable or not is not actually law . there are many things which are considered illegal but are in fact legal . it just the pen pushers have never bothered to put common sense to paper . its tragic that someone has to be lawyered to death before someone gets off their buts to clarify the rules .	tweak'e (69)
557191	2007-06-09 11:23:00	Does this sort of attempt by police to charge a victim annoy? Article by McCully. The Carvell Case The case for unlawful possession of a firearm against Auckland gunshop proprietor Greg Carvell was yesterday thrown out by two Justices of the Peace. And good on them. The Police are attempting to suggest that Mr Carvell was lucky not to have faced more serious charges. And Crown Law say they are considering their options. None of which is very encouraging. They were foolish to have laid the charges in the first place. Mr Carvell was peacefully running his business. One day a criminal thug entered his shop waving a bayonet, threatening to decapitate Mr Carvell and an associate. Mr Carvell shot him, with the fortunate consequence that neither he nor his friend were decapitated, and the criminal thug was thus denied access to the available supply of weaponry and ammunition. A regrettable situation. But one in which unquestionably the best outcome was achieved. The Police decision to charge Mr Carvell is not quite up there with their decision to charge Northland farmer Paul McIntyre after he shot one of several thugs attempting to steal property from his isolated back country farm. But it is close. You see, there is something quite fundamental about the Carvell case and the case of Mr McIntyre that the Police appear not to understand. Both of these men are VICTIMS. It is disconcerting that some Police desk jockeys do not have the judgement to understand this, or to see that a decision to press charges results in massive defence costs, serious trauma and major family upheaval for people who did not go looking for trouble, and who are, by any measurement, VICTIMS. People who no judge, jury or Justice of the Peace with an ounce of common sense is going to convict. So as the Police and Crown Law contemplate the outcome of the Carvell case, here’s hoping that they pause to consider the faint possibility that perhaps they are being sent a message: stop wasting our time and stop inflicting needless cost and suffering on people who have already, through no fault of their own, suffered enough. Don't know much about this most recent gun shop case - but that Northland Farmer one was a no brainer legally - he should have been charged.	Twelvevolts (5457)
557192	2007-06-09 11:27:00	The Police response to most crimes is too slow, several years ago I was a victim, not once but twice of armed hold up, each time approximately $10,000 of Lotto takings was stolen at the point of a gun, both offences occurred in Ponsonby Rd on a Saturday evening just before 1900 hrs, and less than 3 km from the Auckland Central Police Station. on the second occasion, in spite of the Police being notified within less than 2 minutes of the offence, it took them over 30 minutes to have a presence at the crime scene. The NZ Police for a number of reasons, and unable to give the law abiding citizens the protection they are entitled too, lack of resources probably being the main cause. Therefore, when a citizen protects himself and his property, it approaches the farcical that the Police choose to prosecute the victim rather than thank him for doing their work for them. I have been living in Queensland now for some two years, and on my observation, that whilst Brisbane is somewhat larger than Auckland, violent crime is considerably less, there is a very noticeable police presence on the streets, they are armed, and are proactive in stopping crime. We had a case of vandalisation on our property, last year, we observed the offenders leaving the scene, and called the Police, they apologised for taking an hour to respond to our call, because they had been diverted to a crime in progress en -route to our location. The Police to population ratios here is about 50% better than in NZ, they do respond to all complaints from the public, and very much take a no nonsense tack with offenders. In passing, a friend of mine an NZ Police inspector once gave the advice, if you awakened by an offender breaking into your home, wake your wife, give her a loaded shotgun, and go back to sleep. No jury will convict a woman of shooting an intruder in her own home.	KenESmith (6287)
557193	2007-06-09 11:35:00	The Police response to most crimes is too slow, several years ago I was a victim, not once but twice of armed hold up, each time approximately $10,000 of Lotto takings was stolen at the point of a gun, both offences occurred in Ponsonby Rd on a Saturday evening just before 1900 hrs, and less than 3 km from the Auckland Central Police Station. on the second occasion, in spite of the Police being notified within less than 2 minutes of the offence, it took them over 30 minutes to have a presence at the crime scene. The NZ Police for a number of reasons, and unable to give the law abiding citizens the protection they are entitled too, lack of resources probably being the main cause. Therefore, when a citizen protects himself and his property, it approaches the farcical that the Police choose to prosecute the victim rather than thank him for doing their work for them. I have been living in Queensland now for some two years, and on my observation, that whilst Brisbane is somewhat larger than Auckland, violent crime is considerably less, there is a very noticeable police presence on the streets, they are armed, and are proactive in stopping crime. We had a case of vandalisation on our property, last year, we observed the offenders leaving the scene, and called the Police, they apologised for taking an hour to respond to our call, because they had been diverted to a crime in progress en -route to our location. The Police to population ratios here is about 50% better than in NZ, they do respond to all complaints from the public, and very much take a no nonsense tack with offenders. In passing, a friend of mine an NZ Police inspector once gave the advice, if you awakened by an offender breaking into your home, wake your wife, give her a loaded shotgun, and go back to sleep. No jury will convict a woman of shooting an intruder in her own home. So it took 30 minutes in Auckland and an hour in Brisbane - and this is a compelling case for moving to Queensland??	Twelvevolts (5457)
557194	2007-06-09 12:19:00	from what i understand it was in semi ready, you only have to bang in the mag and pull the slide to load. some peole (media) call that "loaded". Loaded to me (based on training) means mag fixed, saftey on. Sorry about the misunderstanding.	beama (111)
557195	2007-06-09 12:19:00	Don't know much about this most recent gun shop case - but that Northland Farmer one was a no brainer legally - he should have been charged. OK. The Northland Farmer was protecting property rather than life possibly. You break into my house you will wear a crossbow arrow. You try to steal my car and I catch you then same deal. I really know that I should not and I would expect a charge. I do not think we need vigilante laws in New Zealand but the Justice here stinks. There is no Justice. Take Paintergate for example. What would you do under similar circumstances? I remember a case some time back where a builder had some wood maybe 4x2 and it was being stolen for firewood. The builder drilled holes in the said wood and put .22 bullets in there. He was charged.	Sweep (90)
557196	2007-06-09 12:57:00	While living In Aussie we had our house knocked over, Took the cops 3 days to call in, I told em to p'off. They decided to hang around and hassle me instead because I got sick of waiting for them and hooked what was left of our tv system back together and closed the window where they gained entry. I also tidied up the mess they had made of the house. Seems I had disturbed their scene, ***, Yeah right. Also at a train station 800m from our house someone tried to throw a bomb through the train window, it bounced back and blew his foot off.Lmao. Then there was the time I dropped Mrs Metla off to catch her morning train and a couple of armed robbers ran out of the store across the road from the station, round my car, then into the carriage Mrs Metla had just entered. That freaked me. Luckily their plan was escape, they ran down a few carriages then leaped off at the next station. Then there was the madman who while naked was firing shots into the air outside the local shopping center, Being oblivious to this I drove around the police cordon and parked up, Went to walk into the bottle shop to get me beers and noticed all the people lying on the floor of the supermarket, Just as it occurred to me that this was a bit strange a couple of gunshots went off quite close,scaring the sheet out of me, crazy naked man runs past, gets tackled by the cops right beside my car....I'm thinking I hope they don't notice my car has no registration. On the plus side, I never ever saw cops unless they were responding to an incident, I received one speeding ticket in 6 years, I came home for a holiday and received $700 worth of tickets in 2 weeks.....Though I will admit I did drive the wrong way around a round-about, but god damn, If someone cant pull out when there is a gap then I have the right to drive around them.	Metla (12)
557197	2007-06-09 13:29:00	Well, that's refreshing. I've just been posting similar views ie. the police were correct to prosecute and leave it the court to decide. Suffice to say, some other forums violently disagree with that view. :D Makes for some fun :thumbs: Look - if I was Greg Carvell, I'd probably have shot the guy too, knowing I might be charged. Better a live martyr than a decapitated law abiding citizen. The parliament makes laws. The police enforce laws. A court tries to interpret with the help of lawyers. And what did parliament really mean? We should not create a precedent in any case. EVER!	Sweep (90)
557198	2007-06-09 13:52:00	i think the major problem here, aside from the media's interpretation of a "loaded" weapon, is that the law requires firearms to be securely stored seperately from ammunition. so if he had a gun in one pocket and loaded mag in the other he's definetly in breach of the law. but then the judges threw it out, showing the system worked for once. i reckon lawyers and accountants should not be the ones making laws, and any politician who's been assimilated into beurocracy for over 5 years similarily has no idea of what's happening in the real world (just look at sue bradford)	motorbyclist (188)
557199	2007-06-09 22:35:00	the police had to press charges otherwise we'd all be running around shooting people "in self defence". i don't think they actually intended to find him guilty of anything. anyway, anyone stupid enough to try to rob a gun shop armed with a knife deserves to be shot:groan: This thread should have stopped here:lol:	rob_on_guitar (4196)
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