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Thread ID: 80015	2007-06-08 16:52:00	Our National Shame Is Over! (US)	SurferJoe46 (51)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
557396	2007-06-09 00:11:00	That spoilt rich brat Paris Hilton should do her time the hard way, and when she is released the world should ignore her - no more newspaper or magazine articles about her - she is an utter parasite on society. Unfortunately, it far from a perfect world, and the paparazzi and their brainless customer magazines will ensure that normal people will continue to be nauseated be ongoing "stories" of the antics of this woman.	KenESmith (6287)
557397	2007-06-09 03:28:00	That spoilt rich brat Paris Hilton should do her time the hard way, and when she is released the world should ignore her - no more newspaper or magazine articles about her - she is an utter parasite on society. Unfortunately, it far from a perfect world, and the paparazzi and their brainless customer magazines will ensure that normal people will continue to be nauseated be ongoing "stories" of the antics of this woman. Poor, poor Paris. She's back in again!!	BobM (1138)
557398	2007-06-09 05:41:00	Strange what is happening in the USA. Yesterday the Paris Hilton crap overshadowed an American milestone that was reached yesterday. 3500 American troop deaths in Iraq 65000 to 71200 civilian deaths. I suppose people are grasping Hilton as a break away from reality. Had another thought - Instead of George Wacko Bush placing a missile shield in Europe, he could just ask Paris Hilton to go there instead. She would be far more effective at turning the enemy away. Ken :2cents:	kenj (9738)
557399	2007-06-09 06:34:00	[quote=SurferJoe46;558886]This isn't the first time that celebrity justice has happened...remember Tanya (Patty Hearst (en.wikipedia.org)) and the Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA) and the worldwide stink that happened when a rich-witch little girl of the publishing magnate used a machne gun to help rob a bank? That was a federally punishable offense, and she got off scott-free too. C/P here: (sorry..this is a rather long post..but I was involved in it... at least unintentionally) So what is your Justice system like? In the USA you have "states" Each and every state can have different rules or laws. As Australia too. In New Zealand I live in one country even though we have three main Islands North, South, Stewart and we can go on to Chathams even. What is happening with preserving the American Indian language in the whole of the country in which you live? A number of people in NZ promote the "Treaty of Waitangi" and ensure you learn Maori when you go to a Computer Course. In NZ we are supposed to have one rule of law for all people but that is not the case. We do not have the death penalty here for any offence which I agree with.	Sweep (90)
557400	2007-06-09 07:51:00	Well . . it's kinda hard to explain . . but I'll try anyway . . . . . . . . . . <let me pull up this soapbox . . here . . > The top of the law chain is of course the federal level . . but the constitution is written to allow states certain rights to regulate themselves in things like traffic laws (as long as they are consistent with the basic laws of the rest of the states) . . . . . . . like driving on the correct side of the street, the colors of traffic signals and the universality of signs and painted lines, . . . . . like commerce . . a state can impose taxes on goods manufactured or assembled in and then sold in it's own jurisdiction . . . within it's own boundaries . They cannot tax across the border transactions with or by another state . . that is a federal tax area only . . and even if citizens from another state enter and buy the goods, the state cannot tax citizens of another state . (although this law is yet to be settled . . it is contingent upon the internet selling through things like E-Bay and so on) . . . . . . a sitting state militia in the form of police, courts, prosecutors and jails, and then if the state law also is a federal law that is broken, the state has precedence and gets first-case authority over the law breaker . They then are eligible for federal prosecution under different guidelines . . but not for murder or things that don't cross a state line or boundary . Double jeopardy is established when a person is found not guilty on the state level . . they cannot be tried for the same charges at the federal level . . . . health and citizens' welfare . . . food and shelter and medical assistance as the state sees fit . Federal disaster funds can be called in for serious disasters and catastrophes with presidential and congressional authorities then allowed to oversee the disbursement of these funds . . . . . assistance from the federal government for crimes of high caliber and mass unrest or riots . . . . but the feds have to wait to be invited by the governor first before they can intercede . . unless it's a matter of national security . State militias have primary authority, and then IF ASKED TO INTERCEDE, the feds can get involved . There are lower authorities too: city, county and district authorities vary from state to state, but generally, they adhere to tenets of the statewide authority if they cannot handle a particular situation . We also have water district- school district- and bench district-authorities . These are all very powerful on a local level, and the state capitols would rather that these smaller authorities handle all the mundane paperwork on civil matters first . The state appointed judges and judges pro-tem like to handle the appeals though . . . . . . establishment of banks and lending institutions or licensing of same is NOT at the state level, but after federal approval, the institution must seek a state approved charter and bond to be in business . The Second National Banks were done away with after WW-I . . . . food purity can be controlled by the state, if it wants to exceed federal standards . . . . . construction of highways can be done solely on the state level, but most seek federal matching funds for these . . there are exceptions . . like California Highway 101 (SH-101) is NOT a US Highway and does not qualify for federal funds for maintenance or repairs . There are exception if there is a disaster though . Each state can build and maintain it's own highways and infrastructure . . but must comply with federally-established guidelines for construction and materials and techniques used . . . . . water supplies can be an adjunct to federal standards and plans for reservoir placement and construction is usually presented to the US Army Corp Of Engineers (COE) for site and construction-type approval, This will allow certain federal funds to be used . . . IF the Corps approves the placement and construction techniques and materials . . . etc . Actually, you see . . there are many areas that states have sovereignties and places where the feds have jurisdiction . . but some areas are blurry and shaded in gray because they are covered in situational severity and causal law on an equal or nolo contendere basis on both jurisdictional levels . . it becomes a toss-up for the right to persecute or execute in some cases . As such, there are a tremendous amount of checks and balances before someone gets thrown into jail or executed . It is a very long and tricky process . Sorry to say the most horrible and dastardly cases make the most press and these are what the world perceives as the whole gauntlet of US laws and enforcement . That's me trying to tell you that you don't see the whole picture . We as citizens get a trench-eye view here and see a lot of good things happening . . but that never reaches the yellow paged tabloids and the homes and eyes/ears of people who want to believe otherwise anyway . We got problems . . you got problems . . but ours are just on a much larger scale . . the percentages are probably about the same . . . but 2% here may mean 300,000 people, and there . . . . . it is a few hundred . Numbers lie . . and they just don't get the whole truth out . Now . . . I am NOT defending this country . . or ANY country that takes people out of homes and denies them recompense at market level . . and places that persecute you for being a native in whatever land you are in . . . or people who want to worship crocodiles or mud gods or whatever floats their boats . I don't defend any country that denies people basic dignity . . to make their own decisions and live where they want and eat what they want and practice the faith they want . Education is for everybody, as is medical intervention in times of sickness and proactive medical examinations and immunizations and disease control starting with the very young and the very old . . . for free . It is the responsibility of the political force in charge to educate, medicate, elevate and advocate it's own citizenry . It must seek the most good for the least expense to the whole populous . . and not deny any vestige of these things to anyone on the basis of color of skin, national origins or credo . I apologize for blonde-headed bimbettes, their shyster-lawyers, the paparazzi and the skewed legal system that is Hollyweird . We are all just being a smidgen too politically over-sensitive here . Call it what it is . . . . a charade and a farce . Don't look at the man behind the curtain . . . keep your eyes trained upon the sensationalism that passes so easily today as "news" . I can't begin to cover all of the bases here . . but you get the idea I think when I say you don't know what happens except what you see in the propaganda of the very controlled press and talking heads . A person is smart; people are dumb . I saw that in a movie . <stepping offa the soapbox> :horrified	SurferJoe46 (51)
557401	2007-06-09 22:43:00	To me, they definitely need the death penalty here.	rob_on_guitar (4196)
557402	2007-06-10 02:06:00	To me, they definitely need the death penalty here . If you were David Bain or Arthur Allan Thomas would you say the same? Now one (or both) may actually be guilty for all I know . In any event "Bain" and "Thomas" are the only persons whom KNOW for a FACT as to their involvement . They may not KNOW who did the deed if either did not do what the police allege . The prosecution in New Zealand has to supply evidence to prove a charge beyond "a reasonable doubt" . I will go along with the death penalty for NZ if there is "no possible doubt whatever" to quote Gilbert rather than Sullivan . Gilbert wrote the lyric .	Sweep (90)
557403	2007-06-10 02:23:00	Well . . it's kinda hard to explain . . but I'll try anyway . . . . . . . . . . <let me pull up this soapbox . . here . . > The top of the law chain is of course the federal level . . but the constitution is written to allow states certain rights to regulate themselves in things like traffic laws (as long as they are consistent with the basic laws of the rest of the states) . . . Actually, you see . . there are many areas that states have sovereignties and places where the feds have jurisdiction . . but some areas are blurry and shaded in gray because they are covered in situational severity and causal law on an equal or nolo contendere basis on both jurisdictional levels . . it becomes a toss-up for the right to persecute or execute in some cases . As such, there are a tremendous amount of checks and balances before someone gets thrown into jail or executed . It is a very long and tricky process . Sorry to say the most horrible and dastardly cases make the most press and these are what the world perceives as the whole gauntlet of US laws and enforcement . That's me trying to tell you that you don't see the whole picture . We as citizens get a trench-eye view here and see a lot of good things happening . . but that never reaches the yellow paged tabloids and the homes and eyes/ears of people who want to believe otherwise anyway . We got problems . . you got problems . . but ours are just on a much larger scale . . the percentages are probably about the same . . . but 2% here may mean 300,000 people, and there . . . . . it is a few hundred . Numbers lie . . and they just don't get the whole truth out . Now . . . I am NOT defending this country . . or ANY country that takes people out of homes and denies them recompense at market level . . and places that persecute you for being a native in whatever land you are in . . . or people who want to worship crocodiles or mud gods or whatever floats their boats . I don't defend any country that denies people basic dignity . . to make their own decisions and live where they want and eat what they want and practice the faith they want . Education is for everybody, as is medical intervention in times of sickness and proactive medical examinations and immunizations and disease control starting with the very young and the very old . . . for free . It is the responsibility of the political force in charge to educate, medicate, elevate and advocate it's own citizenry . It must seek the most good for the least expense to the whole populous . . and not deny any vestige of these things to anyone on the basis of color of skin, national origins or credo . I apologize for blonde-headed bimbettes, their shyster-lawyers, the paparazzi and the skewed legal system that is Hollyweird . We are all just being a smidgen too politically over-sensitive here . Call it what it is . . . . a charade and a farce . Don't look at the man behind the curtain . . . keep your eyes trained upon the sensationalism that passes so easily today as "news" . I can't begin to cover all of the bases here . . but you get the idea I think when I say you don't know what happens except what you see in the propaganda of the very controlled press and talking heads . A person is smart; people are dumb . I saw that in a movie . <stepping offa the soapbox> :horrified Whipped a fair part of your excellent explanation out . Thank you for your comments . What happens with the death penalty in any State?	Sweep (90)
557404	2007-06-10 03:41:00	Now one (or both) may actually be guilty for all I know . In any event "Bain" and "Thomas" are the only persons whom KNOW for a FACT as to their involvement . They may not KNOW who did the deed if either did not do what the police allege . I have never understood why, in the case of otherwise unresolvable situations (no witnesses other than the accused) the use of truth drugs has not been authorised . This would have to be carried out by an independent authority (not the Police or the State) and the results subject to professional scrutiny . Any admissions not connected to the instant case should be removed from the record, and the final outcomes perhaps compared with lie detector test results to determine whether they reached an acceptable threshhold of reliability before being simultaneously passed to the defence and prosecution . Civil libertarians would insist that the accused would have to agree of course, and that a refusal should not weigh against them, but the cost savings would be immense and justice might perhaps be better served . It is certainly a better idea than beating the crap out of the suspects so that they confess just to get the beatings to stop, as still happens in some jurisdictions today . I had the interesting experience of being administered such a drug for an investigative surgical procedure that required me to be awake and responsive to questioning . In a passing comment during result reporting, the surgeon commented that the answers received to misheard or misunderstood questions could occasionally be very surprising (and revealing) . He added that some patients just couldn't stop talking once they started and lurid life stories were told, but that what went down in the operating theatre stayed in the operating theatre . Cheers Billy 8-{) :xmouth:	Billy T (70)
557405	2007-06-10 04:02:00	"Lie detectors" give totally unreliable results. "Truth drugs" don't work. You could always go back to the Bertillon "scientific" method. Or, as been seriously suggested by the "upholders of freedom and democracy", torture.	Graham L (2)
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