| Forum Home | ||||
| PC World Chat | ||||
| Thread ID: 80551 | 2007-06-27 07:47:00 | Science or Religion? What do you believe? | radium (8645) | PC World Chat |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 563703 | 2007-07-15 22:33:00 | Oh to be so sure of things as our B. There's a word for it Ciccy: Faith, usually employed by the other team to deny contradiction and explain the inexplicable. My beliefs don't require deity worship, martyrdom, crusades, holy wars, tithes, graven images, miracles, visions, a vengeful saviour, prostrating oneself before altars, sectarian violence, suspension of one's own critical faculties, monuments to the heroes of the myths of ages past, reference to much translated and interpreted books of legends, molestation of altar boys, pious handwringing, suppression of women's rights, slaughtering of innocent children, a mythical "heaven" full of every person who ever lived and qualified under the trust deed for automatic entry (who looks after all the dead babies that will never grow up, or the aged and infirm who cannot grow young?) and best of all, I don't have to take harp lessons. The time to do good is in the here and now, and if you've done the best you can, you need nobody's mantra, faith or forgiveness to die in peace. And if it turns out I've backed the wrong team, why, a loving and caring saviour (choose your preferred colour, form, and philosophy) will welcome me with open arms. Care to join me? No fees, no services, no club membership, no compulsory attendances, no requirement to park your brain outside and switch your conscience to silent before entering. Cheers Billy 8-{) |
Billy T (70) | ||
| 563704 | 2007-07-15 23:43:00 | Some other religious zealots preach total destruction of any lifestyle that is not in lockstep with their own. Death to infidels! Death to the Great Satan! Death to white or black or purple people! Death to everyone else but themselves. SurferJoe, A few months ago a Jehovah's Witness came to my door and preached just this. They even left a tract that confirmed that death and destruction was coming "soon" for everyone who is not a Jehovah's Witness. Remember, I was a JW for many years and I know they do believe this. Yet you seem to be contradicting this belief. How can your beliefs be different from the organisation you claim to be a part of? |
Mackin_NZ (6958) | ||
| 563705 | 2007-07-15 23:50:00 | I choose to be a Witness...and if that's bad in some eyes, then that's the way it is. Just my very existence and having such a faith causes some to hate me for being so. But, I respectfully say, although I make mistakes and miss the mark many times daily, even hourly, I still cause no-one any harm. So, if a loved one of yours was dying and in need of a blood transfusion, what would you do? Jehovah's Witnesses prohibit blood transfusions and in many cases Witness parents have refused them on behalf of their minor children, causing the child's death. Is that not doing harm? |
Mackin_NZ (6958) | ||
| 563706 | 2007-07-15 23:59:00 | I hear the frustration of peoples' realizations that the churches have sold them out of truth and god in many cases for money, position or other egregious activities that may or may not be obvious. Their bitterness is obvious. Their discontent reeks. I read it in the lines of posted replies and acid remarks by very intelligent people. Being "churched" will kill the spirit and love in anyone. Becoming "out-churched" is the only way some can handle the hate they have for the lies and deceit of the church leaders. Some just hate everything god-like. I can see why. I would rather talk to a person with no god than a person with a god of discrimination, hate for others, or allegiances to national heroes and figureheads.. ....at least the person with no god has not been poisoned by a false one. Joe, you should really remove the scales from your eyes and check out the practices of your own religion before you make statements like this. I spent 5 years living and working in one of Jehovah's Witnesses branch offices and believe me, the Watchtower Society is corrupt to the core. I saw that same corruption extend all the way to the world headquarters in New York. You can't be part of a corrupt organisation like that and not share some of the guilt. That's why I got out. |
Mackin_NZ (6958) | ||
| 563707 | 2007-07-16 02:51:00 | You can't be part of a corrupt organisation like that and not share some of the guilt. That's why I got out. Glad you saw it for what it was and got out. Good on ya Mackin, you must be pleased knowing you have done the right thing. More power too you. :thumbs: |
radium (8645) | ||
| 563708 | 2007-07-16 02:54:00 | Your last 2 posts Billy... Well put. Nice |
radium (8645) | ||
| 563709 | 2007-07-16 03:23:00 | I have some trouble with word faith . . . faith: confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, an idea, or a thing . belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence . loyalty or allegiance to a person or thing; esp . fidelity to a promise . the theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will . Faith indicates unswerving action, devotion, and direction of self, and is often charged with emotion . Here are some other words that cover much of the same turf . In what ways do these words describe how you are toward God, or toward the gospel message? 'assurance' is a confidence or sureness that is not rooted in your intellect . It usually comes about because of the action of someone else . belief : the mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another . mental acceptance and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something . 'belief' vs . 'faith' : 'Beliefs' are existing ideas that one holds to; 'faith' looks toward what is to come . 'Belief' relates most to knowledge and understanding; 'faith' relates most to hope and trust . 'Belief' may or may not imply that the believer is certain, whereas 'faith' implies a level of confidence that approaches certainty . certainty is not a form of faith, but of knowledge, based on demonstrable evidence that is so strong that it can be fairly labelled 'proof' . Confidence suggests less emotional intensity (or, at least, a much less visible intensity); it implies stronger grounds for assurance . conviction is a strongly-held belief or idea on spiritual or moral matters . It is something that often grows out of life experiences and hard thinking or meditation . For Dietrich Bonhoeffer, his convictions were expressed as a 'yes' to what God had in store for him, knowing full well that it could (and did) lead him to death at the hands of the Nazis . credence suggests that the mind accepts and agrees to it, with nothing implied about the grounds of proof . Read the above and still don't like the word in the context you have proffered . |
Cicero (40) | ||
| 563710 | 2007-07-16 06:06:00 | Cicero, I have the same issues with the religious concept of "faith". It seems to me to be closely related to credulity. Most religious people have "faith" in their religions teachings without ever thinking enough to determine if those teachings are true. I've met many religious people who admittedly don't understand all the details of what their religion teaches yet still claim to have faith. That's blind acceptance from my point of view. Jehovah's Witnesses are notorious for changing their beliefs as their various predictions and interpretations are proved false yet their membership still profess strong faith in their leaders and in the new revised teachings. That's worse than blind acceptance, that's braindead. |
Mackin_NZ (6958) | ||
| 563711 | 2007-07-16 12:19:00 | Cicero may well remember the NZ Presbyterian Churches heresy hearing in 1967, against Professor Lloyd Geering, who was a senior staff member of Knox Theological College, - (initiated by a Mr Wardlaw, who was a very high profile and successful NZ businessman). Mackin NZ was perhaps a little too young at the time. The context of the charges was that some of the teachings of Professor Geering challenged the beliefs of Mr Wardlaw and his traditionalist church member friends, who felt extreme discomfit at the prospect of having to think about the validity of their beliefs. Professor Geering was not sacked, and continued to teach a challenging view of Christianity to prospective Presbyterian Ministers. It was a source of some quiet amusement to me that as 6th and Upper Sixth students at a Presbyterian boys College in the 1950's, that we were taught by our headmaster much of that which Mr Wardlaw and his associates tried to pillory Loyd Geering for. Equally amusing was that Wardlaw junior was a pupil at the same school. Loyd Geering's view of Christianity is well worthy of study by students of religion who are prepared to take an open minded approach to the philosophical questions raised on religious beliefs, and I commend reading some of his scholarly writings to you - Google him - keep an open mind and be challenged. |
KenESmith (6287) | ||
| 563712 | 2007-07-17 01:31:00 | Keep an open mind normally means prepare to believe the unbelievable? | rob_on_guitar (4196) | ||
| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 | |||||