Forum Home
PC World Chat
Thread ID: 80551	2007-06-27 07:47:00	Science or Religion? What do you believe?	radium (8645)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
563693	2007-07-14 03:08:00	The "Muslim hordes", Billy? The armies which went to Europe in the Middle ages were from a great civilisation. Europe was in the Dark Ages, and needed to be civilised. Unfortunately it didn't happen. The Crusades demonstrated that. The Crusades were fomented by successive Popes, not to "recover the Holy Places" but to keep the princes and kings busy enough that they wouldn't combine to throw off the yoke of the Pope/Emperors. The famous Children's Crusade was just a business operation of a few priests. The few children who reached Africa were sold as slaves. Most of them went to the bottom of the Mediterranean when the rotten ships sank.	Graham L (2)
563694	2007-07-14 06:02:00	I am getting this urge to become a Christian. These hordes need sorting. I realise of course knowing you lot,I will be alone.	Cicero (40)
563695	2007-07-14 07:13:00	I respect your opinions and views SuferJoe and I'm glad we agree on religious secs that are bad news for all concerned. You seem like a good sort :thumbs:	radium (8645)
563696	2007-07-14 10:19:00	The "Muslim hordes", Billy? The armies which went to Europe in the Middle ages were from a great civilisation . Yes, they were Muslims, and there were hordes of them, so what part of that statement is incorrect Graham? I dispute the great civilisation comment though, it was a great empire, but by the standards even we look back through, I'm not sure that the actions of Ghengis Khan and his armies were very "civilised" . They were probably marginally less civil than Hitler's SS . It is all a matter of perspective of course, and matters little as the principal debate here is about the merits of religion and the dichotomy presented by an all loving and all-forgiving God who condemns the weak or faithless to eternal damnation . You do believe in hell don't you? Then there is the next God, and the next, and the next and the next, and the next . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . In fact, if you include all the various sects and faiths there are probably several thousand branch offices of God Inc, all with their own constitution, version of piety, and concept of Heaven . ( . imagef1 . net . nz/files/Virgins . bmp" target="_blank">www . imagef1 . net . nz) Little wonder religion is the root of all evil . It is also the opiate of the masses who either cannot think for themselves, or have such an over-inflated view of their own importance in the eternity of time that they can't conceive of simply coming to a dead end (in both senses) . Immortality is much easier to achieve, we are all the immortal heritage of the entire tree of life from which man sprang . It is there in our DNA in a continous sequence right back to the beginning of life on earth (representing every single forebear we have had who at least made it to maturity and managed to procreate) in an unbroken chain . Nobody alive on the planet today represents a broken line, that is a simple fact, though some may have different roots to the anticipated path due to infidelity or simple seed spreading, and if humans survive a million years their DNA will trace back though us in the same way . Think about it, we all carry DNA fragments from the first "man" whether "he" was fish, fowl, mammal or reptile, now that is true immortality . Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
563697	2007-07-14 21:51:00	Let me answer a few of these . . . . sorry to hijack their post, but I think you'll see why I did it . . . . . Yes, they were Muslims, and there were hordes of them, so what part of that statement is incorrect Graham? Your are right here, Billy, and there was even a mini-invasion of them into Briton too . . . . . I dispute the great civilisation comment though, it was a great empire, but by the standards even we look back through, I'm not sure that the actions of Ghengis Khan and his armies were very "civilised" . They were probably marginally less civil than Hitler's SS . Most vernal or berry-gathering empires (those that didn't practice animal husbandry and planting of crops) never lasted very long . . . but I think you've miscalculated the length of time Ghengis Khan's effects lasted . . . after all, the Oriental religions still are rather blood-thirsty at least in basis of their genesis . Great civilizations do NOT however have to build freeways and nuclear generating stations to qualify for the title . It is all a matter of perspective of course, and matters little as the principal debate here is about the merits of religion and the dichotomy presented by an all loving and all-forgiving God who condemns the weak or faithless to eternal damnation . That's a purely Babylonian premise, and I am ashamed of you being so erudite and yet making that mistake . That's a pretty broad brush there, Bill! You do believe in hell don't you? I stated MY position on Hell and Hellfire before . . . I think I made that clear . Then there is the next God, and the next, and the next and the next, and the next . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . In fact, if you include all the various sects and faiths there are probably several thousand branch offices of God Inc, all with their own constitution, version of piety, and concept of Heaven . ( . imagef1 . net . nz/files/Virgins . bmp" target="_blank">www . imagef1 . net . nz) This is one of the tenets of LDS . . the "Mormons" if you will . You must have read from their D&C? This also is part of the beliefs of the pantheon gods in Shinto, Buddhism, and especially that of Hinduism, where they have over 10-million "gods" including rats, penises, goats and fish-gods . Little wonder religion is the root of all evil . It is also the opiate of the masses who either cannot think for themselves, or have such an over-inflated view of their own importance in the eternity of time that they can't conceive of simply coming to a dead end (in both senses) . Now, you quote Josef Stalin . . . and later on the ides of Nietzsche . Both were not qualified Bible students in any stretch of the imagination and had political/philosophical axes to grind anyway . Immortality is much easier to achieve, . . . . . (we'll talk about that later) . . . . . . . we are all the immortal heritage of the entire tree of life from which man sprang . It is there in our DNA in a continous sequence right back to the beginning of life on earth (representing every single forebear we have had who at least made it to maturity and managed to procreate) in an unbroken chain . Now . . THAT's the Bible's view! Thanks! Nobody alive on the planet today represents a broken line, that is a simple fact, though some may have different roots to the anticipated path due to infidelity or simple seed spreading, and if humans survive a million years their DNA will trace back though us in the same way . Absolutely from the Bible again! Think about it, we all carry DNA fragments from the first "man" whether "he" was fish, fowl, mammal or reptile, now that is true immortality . I prefer to believe that's a form of infamy, as opposed to a benefit . Immortality is not imputed, but earned under certain and non-variable conditions . Cheers Billy 8-{)~ You and I seem to be speaking the same language though . There are a few things that you have stated that are so spot-on, it makes me think that you have had some serious religious studies under your belt . Here's a quick compendium: MARKS OF FALSE RELIGION 1) Multiple personalities or stages of divinity; multiple or pantheon gods . 2) Eternal damnation, perditions and fires of hell or hades . 3) Alignment with secular doctrines thru governments, political affiliations or philosophical deities . 4) Man-worship, or Woman-worship, if you prefer . Animal-worship is possible . 5) Use of icons or avatars, carvings, statuary, beads and consecrations . 6) Chants or repetitive prayers, wheel-spinning, burnt offerings, tithing 7) Use of hallucinogens or mind-altering drugs (including alcohol too in large quantities) for "enlightenment" . 8) "Special" communication with or conversations with god; speaking in tongues . 9) The priest/preacher has a few Cadillacs and a spa in Rio . There are other conditions, but they all stem from the confusion of truth and the subjugation of adherents or proselytes and alternate "targets" that look real but are false . See? You aren't far from figuring it all out now!	SurferJoe46 (51)
563698	2007-07-15 02:18:00	All religions are based on eternal life, immortality, living in the afterlife. Are they not? “Extraordinary claims require extrodinary proof” Science and Religion cannot live together, their views are strongly apposed.	radium (8645)
563699	2007-07-15 02:34:00	When you think about it,the pope must know what he is up to,do you think he has trouble keeping straight in bed.	Cicero (40)
563700	2007-07-15 04:31:00	"Muslim hordes", Billy? A little confusion here, I think . The "hordes" term is usually applied (perjoratively) to the armies of the Mongol empire under Genghiz Khan . gg (google . co . nz) in the 13th century . It didn't expand into Western Europe The Mongol empire didn't care about religions in the subject nations . Some Muslims were wiped out, but that's because they didn't behave themselves . Governments, especially imperial ones, don't like trouble makers . Nothing has changed since those days . The Muslim armies which successfully entered Western Europe in ther 7th and 8th centuries were from a high civilisation, invading a very uncivilised area after the collapse of the Roman empire . Armies have never been famous for consideration of civilians . Nothing has changed since those days .	Graham L (2)
563701	2007-07-15 11:26:00	You and I seem to be speaking the same language though . There are a few things that you have stated that are so spot-on, it makes me think that you have had some serious religious studies under your belt . Well Joe, my mother was a Catholic, my father was a Protestant, they were married in a Presbyterian church and as a lad I went to a Methodist church . I do not believe in Gods or any other kind of "superior power", and logically I don't believe in hellfire and damnation either . I have done no serious religious studies but I have read widely and I mean it when I say that religion is the root of all evil . I have a simple faith in the goodness of man and "do unto others" . That my personal beliefs mirror some of the teachings of the various scriptures is simply a coincidence of commonsense . The bible was written by man, edited by man and used & abused by man, so it is not surprising the a thinking person who aspires to some moral standards of behaviour would occasionally think along the same general lines . What I have written here was derived from my own musings over the years and for me immortality is provided by my children and their children's children (should I/they be so lucky) while peace of passing from this life is provided by my secure knowledge that I never knowingly hurt another individual, that I helped others freely and without expectation of reward, and when presented with the opportunity to do good, I tried, and if presented with the opportunity to do evil, I resisted . Religion of all persuasions is an evil monument to the enormity of man's ego, a testament to his inability to believe that one so important as he could possibly just die and that be the end of him for all time . From that ego, all the ills and evils committed in the name of "God" have grown . Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
563702	2007-07-15 21:52:00	Oh to be so sure of things as our B.	Cicero (40)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22