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Thread ID: 81130	2007-07-17 12:06:00	Yet another thread about the forum clock...	Erayd (23)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
569787	2007-07-19 08:04:00	Another one.Indeed. Bletch: I've been discussing the time "discrepancy" on this server. Not entirely - you've been talking about other things too. So have I. I thought that all the things I addressed were vinref's. Nope. Most of the points I responded to were ones I raised, although some were pieces of vinref's ones. Show me the Kerberos authentication server on this forum. I never said that this serer used kerberos. I was merely responding to your insane hypothesis that the clock is irrelevant and can't break anything in a modern computer setup. If this server does in fact use kerberos for things like ssh logins, the result would be no remote maintenence capability as the KDC would reject all authentication requests from this server. Show me the failed backups.This was a hypothetical scenario - backups being sent to this server using tar as a transport would fail, however this situation is unlikely to occur in real life. Show me the problems with server logs.I pointed this out before. You can't match up times in the server log with times in other logs (the firewall for example). Log analysis packages are unable to cope with the time difference. They won't crash, but some of the data they produce will be pretty meaningless. Show me the failed updates (where is the tar file with a date "in the future" going to come from?).From rpm packages installed via repository updates. vinref introduced a number of problems which he seems to believe are inevitable if the time is wrong on this server.Indeed he did. However after scenting the chance for a good argument, and noting that your replies contained some pretty preposterous statements, I decided to point out a few extra things. Computer networks work. They work together in internets. Internets work together in the Internet. They even work if individual computers have different times .The companion statement (and one of the reasons for this forum existing): Computer networks break. They break when linked together in internets. These networks break when attempting to work together via The Internet. They can even break because individual computers have different times. As you can see both statements take an extreme point of view - the reality is a middle ground somewhere between the two. I was just mentioning this case from personal experience: The computers in the Public Library system here presumably get their time from the central server (since they all download their OS from the server) . They normally show the time as one hour "wrong" after the daylight time changes. It stays like that until someone gets around to changing the setting on the server. IT DOESN'T MATTER. They all access the Internet. No problem.Perfectly true, except for the small problem of that situation not using anything where the correct time would be needed. When the time issue is on a forum such as this, people care. Blame vinref for that. He said it's a problem. I say it's not on this server.I don't blame vinref - he's perfectly correct. It annoys a lot of users that the time is wrong. I postulate that it annoys no-one when the time is right. Which would you rather have, a lot of annoyed users or no annoyed users? Rubbish, yourself. What Kerberos server on this system? Do I have to say it again? If I was installing a K server in a LAN , I would make sure that the times in my cluster/LAN/whatever were consistent even if the LAN time seemed "wrong" to people outside. And I wouldn't necessarily have an automatic synchronisation with an outside time server in a time critical application. Sometimes they have problems. (I believe the Microsoft one was giving random times for a while). Sometimes there are good reasons for having a "local time" which does not coincide with the official local time. I've kept wall clocks on UTC, and computers for the same reason.Perfectly valid point, except for the small problem of the time onstantly drifting. Timeservers are generally accurate. And yes, you're probably right about there being no kerberos on this network (or at least not associated with this server). I brought it up as an example of a time-sensitive application, after being challenged to do just that by you. If your backup programmes can't cope with a computer which has a time "discrepancy" it needs some serious work.I never said that. My backup program can cope just fine with a time skew. What I said was that my backup solution doesn't make use of the archive bit, noting how unreliable the archive bit actually is in practice. It's easy enough to back up any files which have been changed or generated since the last backup.Indeed it is, and my backup solution does that job quite nicely. The MS Archived bit is one way to ensure that. It's easy enough in Unix. Indeed, except for the fact that it doesn't always work. I'd rather have a reliable backup solution. I mentioned one time related problem I have seen on this server -- the odd sorting when the time was set back, so there was a doubled "time period". Perhaps I should have suggested sorting on the sequence number, rather than the time. That was an aside. Point noted. Sometimes the PressF1 server has the wrong time. It has been wrong for some time, and the world hasn't ended. A transformer has blown up in New York, and an earthquake has demonstrated, again, the perfect safety of nuclear power in Japan. I think it would be stretching the "butterfly effect" blame those events on the flapping of a few PressF1ers' knickers because the clock is a few minutes out.LOL. No-one has died, you're right - but wouldn't it be so much nicer if the time was correct? What's the point of having it otherwise?	Erayd (23)
569788	2007-07-19 09:10:00	lol y2k déjà vu.	roddy_boy (4115)
569789	2007-07-19 11:28:00	Tell you what, I'd give a lot for Graham and bletch and viref to meet one on one right now and see where that goes:D Just fix the time guys, Graham will be happy and so will everyone else.	beeswax34 (63)
569790	2007-07-19 12:03:00	Graham will be happyI kinda doubt that'll happen in our lifetimes! :D	Greg (193)
569791	2007-07-19 16:14:00	Your're the one who seems to be seriously concerned . I don't care . That's why I want to see the sundial . I'm not opposing "correct" time; I'm amused at the importance some people seem to place on it . Yeah? Well . . . what about us who are not in your timezone? If you post a sundial, it won't do me any good . . . I am in a different time zone and your timekeeper will be dark for me anyway! Can you set up a flashlight (torch/NZ) to illuminate the dial for me? Picture a black bear in a cave at midnight . . . and a low resolution web cam . . . . . . see?	SurferJoe46 (51)
569792	2007-07-19 21:25:00	Tardis appears to be a Windows program. The PressF1 server runs Fedora Linux... Oh, didnt know that!	SolMiester (139)
569793	2007-07-19 21:33:00	What with relativity and the Pacific cables being underwater when they cross the dateline, time gets skewed just as members get stewed. When it comes to time keeping, some consider a clock's sole function is to tell the time in synch. with the universe. Others of an antipodean origin are nurtured on the spirit of Lucas and Smiths, so regard indication of anything as a near miracle that should not be disturbed lest the weather turn soggy. For them, this is proper. Unfortunately for the sundial theory, Fairfax are Australian, so the lack of instructions as to which side of the sundial is meant to be up has not helped. Also, to allow the same time to be adhered to throughout the enterprise, the sundial has been installed in a lift/elevator. As there is a shortage of floor space in lifts/elevators and a relatively larger amount of ceiling, the sundial is currently attached - guess where?	R2x1 (4628)
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