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Thread ID: 81223	2007-07-21 00:12:00	What's the fair thing to do?	george12 (7)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
570773	2007-07-21 06:07:00	Customers are not always right, Many will use you, many will cost you money, Look after the ones that are worth it and bounce the rest onto someone more....deserving.	Metla (12)
570774	2007-07-21 06:25:00	Ummmmmmmm, please forgive me here . How come the deal was done through Trade Me but wasn’t? :confused: If the deal had nothing to do with Trade Me then what has a picture in Trade Me got to do with it . :confused: Tsk, tsk, you both haven’t been screwing Trade Me have you? :stare:	B.M. (505)
570775	2007-07-21 06:39:00	A customer just came round and isn't happy with the computer I built for him - because the case is different (although very similar) to the one pictured in the Trade Me auction. This is my mistake, I thought the case I ordered was the one in the auction. The problem is, even though I offered to swap the case for him, he just wants a refund. I asked for a $150 deposit for the computer before building it, which I explained was to ensure he didn't pull out of the sale after I'd built it. He paid the remaining $1345 yesterday into my bank account. He was very unpleasant when he turned up, and said I didn't look like I had a clue what I was doing, because I didn't have everything together. This is because he turned up 2 hours earlier than we arranged. Basically, I don't think he is being reasonable at all. He told me to give him the money back and I said I would, before having a chance to think about it. My question is, is it fair to tell him that if he gets a refund, it will only be the amount he paid after the $150 deposit, as the deposit is to prevent exactly this situation, and that if he doesn't want to lose $150, I can swap the case for the one he wants. What would you do? Because the case wasn't the one as was shown, you have opened a hole, where the consumer has every right to ask for their money back (and the deposit too), once they have returned it. Legally you could dispute this, but is it worth the hassle, and they have obviously made up their mind that they don't want to muck around with it. When most non computer type people see the computer case, they think that is the actual computer, and if you have got that wrong, then they also may think that the components inside may also not be what was advertised, as how would they really know. I think they have every right to ask for their money back, and any loss you make you should put down to your error in not supplying the correctly advertised case. I am sure you will get it right the next time.	robbyp (2751)
570776	2007-07-21 07:06:00	CGA If something goes wrong, you have the right to insist that the seller or service provider fixes things. Generally speaking, this means the retailer who sold you the goods or services must sort out the problem. If the problem cannot be fixed, or cannot be put right within a reasonable time, or is substantial, you can: * Reject the product and choose a replacement or full refund; or * Cancel the service contract, pay for any satisfactory work already done, and get someone else to finish the repairs; or * Have it repaired elsewhere and recover the costs from the dealer, if the trader refuses to fix a faulty product, or fails to do so in a reasonable time. When the problem is not substantial, the product must still be repaired or replaced, but the trader or service provider is entitled to try to fix the problem first. When you have the right to reject the goods, sellers cannot just offer a credit note. If you want a refund, you are entitled to it - by cash, cheque or credit card charge reversal. You see? Its a similar case. Its not misleading him as to performance, usage its suitable for, components inside or anything like that. He offered to replace the case as according to the rules. In my situation I don't build PCs then try to sell them, I only build to order. But if someone did order it and then turned around and said they didn't like it well tough luck for them. On occasion I haven't been able to get the promised CPU model or size HDD, so I bump it up to the next model up from that. They have all been pleased about that. At my cost of course. I had one customer buy a couple of pieces of hardware recently, the arrangement being payment on install, they stalled for 2 weeks, the story changed 3 times until they ended up with "haven't been paid". At which point I sent a reminder invoice with the small print clearly marked - All costs incurred including debt collection agent fees will be borne by the customer. I got paid the next day. They may not like me anymore but I don't like them either so we're even. I can't see them making a noise about it to the neighbours....	pctek (84)
570777	2007-07-21 07:31:00	Firstly, you shouldn't have done the deal outside of Trade Me, regardless of the buyer's complicity you lost the moral high ground by cheating . Secondly, was it made up with all new parts or was it a mix of new and 2nd hand? That has some bearing on what course of action is best . The extent to which you may be held to a description can be a little looser for second hand provided the goods are essentially the same in form and function . Thirdly, as the seller you have the right to correct the error, that is to say, change the case so that it matches the decription and if you do this the buyer must complete the sale unless he had previously stipulated a "time period for delivery" . If he declines that offer it is arguable that you have the right to keep the deposit, but that right should be clearly expressed in your terms of trade and he must have been given these before he entered into the deal . My guess is that you didn't make that right clear enough so he did not know his deposit was at risk if he failed to follow through, so on that basis I'd think carefully about where you take this . Finally, there is every possibility he will dob you in on TM which will potentially stuff you big-time . The good name (or otherwise) you have built up would go down the dunny so my advice is this: Refund the money, play it straight on TM in future, provide written terms of sale, and make sure you get it right next time . Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
570778	2007-07-21 07:34:00	Thanks everybody. I didn't actually think there was any question of whether I was legally obligated to give him a full refund. My understanding is that I'm not - if I give him exactly what he ordered (swap the case), I have fulfilled all obligations. But that wasn't my question, my question was what's fair (and what I should do). Only giving the minimum legally required level of service isn't a good way to run a business. I have given him a full refund because I don't want a miserable ex-customer thinking he's been scammed and telling everyone he can about the 'kid who doesn't know what he's doing' stealing money from people. Pctek, we're in the same boat, I only build to order. That's why it's quite bad for me when someone pulls out of a sale - as it could take a while to get rid of the parts. In this case I can probably sell the whole thing again. I also frequently bump up parts (usually only power supplies) if I can't get the advertised part in, and I never get complaints, although I never get thanked either as nobody cares about power supplies... robbyp, you are spot on with how the guy seemed to perceive computers. He just looked at it and said 'this isn't the computer I ordered'. Naturally, I'll be more careful next time. B.M., he found the auction, then contacted me directly and arranged the sale. I have no idea what you're talking about Sweep. There are no second hand parts in this computer. It's new. I hope you're not implying that I would put second hand parts into a computer and call it new..... To clarify how different the cases were, the case I used has a bigger area of silver (both are silver and black) and a vented front bit instead of smooth plastic. They're the same shape, brand, price and are identical inside. The advertised case arguably does look better though. But the important thing is that I was perfectly happy to exchange it for the correct case that he wanted, and he treated it like I was a builder and had built a completely different house than was ordered, but could tear it down and do it right if he can wait a few months :p	george12 (7)
570779	2007-07-21 07:38:00	Firstly, you shouldn't have done the deal outside of Trade Me, regardless of the buyer's complicity you lost the moral high ground by cheating . Secondly, was it made up with all new parts or was it a mix of new and 2nd hand? That has some bearing on what course of action is best . The extent to which you may be held to a description can be a little looser for second hand provided the goods are essentially the same in form and function . Thirdly, as the seller you have the right to correct the error, that is to say, change the case so that it matches the decription and if you do this the buyer must complete the sale unless he had previously stipulated a "time period for delivery" . If he declines that offer it is arguable that you have the right to keep the deposit, but that right should be clearly expressed in your terms of trade and he must have been given these before he entered into the deal . My guess is that you didn't make that right clear enough so he did not know his deposit was at risk if he failed to follow through, so on that basis I'd think carefully about where you take this . Finally, there is every possibility he will dob you in on TM which will potentially stuff you big-time . The good name (or otherwise) you have built up would go down the dunny so my advice is this: Refund the money, play it straight on TM in future, provide written terms of sale, and make sure you get it right next time . Cheers Billy 8-{) Thanks Billy . I don't regard it as cheating Trade Me . He contacted me and ordered the PC directly, he just wanted the computer I had advertised on Trade Me . There were no second hand parts involved . I did tell him that the point of the deposit was to protect me in case he didn't buy the PC, but this is a slightly different situation as it's my error . I have given him the refund .	george12 (7)
570780	2007-07-21 07:59:00	Good one George. I was a self employed electrician for 5 years, many years ago. "The customer is ALWAYS right", even if they are not. I found it better to state my case. If no agreement, then refund partly or fully. My good trade name was valuable to me. I would never work for that person/firm again. PJ:thumbs:	Poppa John (284)
570781	2007-07-21 10:33:00	If you were dealing in terms of ethics, offer him a refund as the customer is always right... apparently. But legally speaking, all you have to do is replace it and keep everything he's paid. I refer to the Consumer Guarantees Act - replace, refund, repair as you will all be familiar wih.	techie (7177)
570782	2007-07-21 11:00:00	The customer is always right only if they are a customer. Life is too short to pander to these types of people - so don't make them a customer and you won't have the hassle of dealing with people who steal your time, your resources and your knowledge. Plus these sorts of people are usually really slow at paying their bill. So don't make them a customer and they will never be right. Send them to a competitor. That's what we do. Much easier and much less hassle. So how to recognise an ex-potential customer? They question the quote? ..... then ..... goodbye! Good on you for refunding the full amount George. You will be better off without this person in your life. Andrew	andrew93 (249)
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