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Thread ID: 81380	2007-07-25 22:31:00	Wheel Alignment Question	allblack (6574)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
572774	2007-07-26 09:58:00	Ummm...thanks SJ. Informative and waaay-over-the-top as usual! :D But did I miss you answering the question? Can they do the alignment BEFORE removing the wheels to change the rubber? Every car I've had new tyres on the alignment has always been done after the new rubber is put on... I run a tyre/align store. 1. yes they can do the alignment before but best results are always on new tyres. 2. If they only had it for an hour chances are fairly slim that they did a proper alignment although there are machines around now that use cameras instead of bolt on sensors and can be set up and readings taken in just 2-3 mins, if they had one of these machines then I would find it easier to believe that an alignment was done. 3. Have a look under your vehicle at the tie rod ends and see if there are any spanner marks on them, easy way to tell if any adjustment has been made, asuming of course it needed adjusting. 4. They should have given you a print out, go back and ask for it, it will be stored on there alignment computer, if they dont have it on there system ask for a refund and dont go back. Will be interested to hear how you get on, I have found that generally the big chains have monkeys running there alignment machines, try going to a specialist independant tyre store(like mine, but I am in the wrong island for you) better service, more motivated to get you back again next time etc etc :D mik	miknz (3731)
572775	2007-07-26 15:44:00	If the machine looked anything like this ( . hunter . com/pub/product/alignmentsystems/4883T/index . htm" target="_blank">www . hunter . com) (the last machine I used before I retired), then you probably got a fair test or alignment . Even a semi-trained Rhesus monkey can work this machine . Chances of making an incorrect adjustment are nil as you have to get everything in the "GREEN" to get a decent report from the computer . Anything less that right-on gets a yellow or red readout and if you see the readout, you'll know . Just make sure that the vehicle you brought in is on the readout too . . the specs are all loaded into the data base and the report must have the correct vehicle to make it correct . So you can see that the alignment here is not related to the tires/tyres . . . just the rims and the compensation in the data base for the machine . In the olde days, we used a camber bubble, swivel plates, chalk, a string and a yardstick to align vehicles . It was accurate enough, but it was very time-consuming and not monetarily fruitful to the tech . I actually hated to see a customer ask for an alignment in those days . . . too much work for minimal results I thought . But, yeah . . . . look for wrench marks on the tie rods and undercar steering parts . . if it DID need more than the peanutbutter check I mentioned . I knew shops that didn't perform an alignment but made some marks on the sleeves and locknuts to fake the customer . . . so that too may not be a good indicator . Mostly these fraudsters worked in the big name facilities . . . the ones that advertise the heaviest and in full-page ads in the papers . Go to a mom-n-pop shop . . they want to be a good place for thieir customers . . . after all they can't rely upon a corporation to support them when things get slow or the lawsuits pile up too high . Big bad names here in the STATES: Big-O Tires Sears Firestone Tires Center 4-Day Tires K-Mart Auto Wal-Mart Auto Service Midas Goodyear Tire See? Big names = poor service . . the attorneys general of various states here have stacks of suits concerning them all the time and they get banned from advertising for a year or so as a condition of the fines/penalties but they never close them down . Right now we don't see AAMCO transmission shops in the papers or on tv . . they have been banned from advertising . They did something bad again . . . like every time they open their doors . I don't personally know Miknz, but if he's been in business for longer than a few years and is still running, then I suggest checking his place out . If he's a survivor in a very competitive business and has a decent customer base, then he's very likely a very good shop to use . What he said is the truth . . that's a good point . He and I may have personal points that aren't resolvable, but this is just about good business and getting what you need .	SurferJoe46 (51)
572776	2007-07-26 23:32:00	You must be a Target junkie too then. :D Huh? No. Not really. Watched it once or twice.	allblack (6574)
572777	2007-07-26 23:41:00	I know . . ask me what time it is and I'll tell you how to build a watch . . . ahem! Yes . . they can align with old, new or a mixed bag of tires/tyres on the vehicle . . . the machine doesn't use the tires/tyres for reference anyway . . . just the rims/ryms . But get this part . . . . . Even if the rims/ryms are out of round (within limits) the machine will find it and compute the amount of the run-out into the computation for the correct alignment . Truthfully . . the best alignment is with the driver in the seat, 1/2 tank of fuel/petrol and the engine running to remove pressure from the dynamics on the tires/tyres at rest . . . but that's 'way over the top too . Tire/tyre pressures/presyurz were important in the old/olde days too . . but not so much any more . If the tire's/tyre's got SOME air/ayre and it isn't actually flat, there are compensations that can be made . 4WDs are just as touchy as two-wheelers/wheelerz for alignment . . . they just offer a different set of values to compensate for the 90%/10% driving characteristics of the vehicle . The manufacturers figger that you will use all four only about 10% of the time and they design the suspension and specs accordingly . I asked for, and presumably got, 90/10 tyres . Explained to the guy that it will used mainly open road, and occasionally playing with the 4WD on a very dodgy beach in Wanganui . He proffered . . . . . . (walking out to the car) . . . . (passed the dogs who have AGAIN crapped on the pathway!) . . . . Dunlop Grandtrek's 265/70/16 which (from my limited knowledge of tyres/tires )appear to have no directional (?) look to the tread pattern . Hope I got what I wanted . :confused:	allblack (6574)
572778	2007-07-26 23:46:00	I run a tyre/align store . 1 . yes they can do the alignment before but best results are always on new tyres . 2 . If they only had it for an hour chances are fairly slim that they did a proper alignment although there are machines around now that use cameras instead of bolt on sensors and can be set up and readings taken in just 2-3 mins, if they had one of these machines then I would find it easier to believe that an alignment was done . 3 . Have a look under your vehicle at the tie rod ends and see if there are any spanner marks on them, easy way to tell if any adjustment has been made, asuming of course it needed adjusting . 4 . They should have given you a print out, go back and ask for it, it will be stored on there alignment computer, if they dont have it on there system ask for a refund and dont go back . Will be interested to hear how you get on, I have found that generally the big chains have monkeys running there alignment machines, try going to a specialist independant tyre store(like mine, but I am in the wrong island for you) better service, more motivated to get you back again next time etc etc :D mik Thanks for comments Mik . I will go back and ask for the alignment sheet . . . . . . I'm starting to think more and more I've been done over . But I'm usually a good judge of character (read: cynical bastard!:) ) and this guy seemed straight-up . Or else I would have kept driving . . . just like I did when I went to B/Repairs in Tawa . . . . Edit: They had it for two hours . . . . I wasn't there for the first . Went wandering so don't know what they did .	allblack (6574)
572779	2007-07-26 23:52:00	If the machine looked anything like this ( . hunter . com/pub/product/alignmentsystems/4883T/index . htm" target="_blank">www . hunter . com) (the last machine I used before I retired), then you probably got a fair test or alignment . The alignment machine looked like any other I've seen in my time . Not new, or "advanced" looking . At each corner of the hoist they have a thing they attach to the tyres/wheels? Which is why I got suspicious . . . . if every other crowd have done the alignment after the new tyres put on, what makes these guys so special? But then . . . paranoia can be a beautiful thing . . . . and maybe I should just get over it?	allblack (6574)
572780	2007-07-27 01:12:00	But then...paranoia can be a beautiful thing....and maybe I should just get over it? Else you would have to call in for a realignment every time you put the spare wheel on.	PaulD (232)
572781	2007-07-27 01:20:00	The results are going to show in the tire wear you experience . Mostly, alignment problems and missed settings will not be readily felt by the average driver . If you experience a "pull" to one side or another, just don't let them say it's "radial pull" because that's a load of sheepdip . Radial pull happens, but usually from a tire that has been rotated into a different rotational direction instead of front to rear . I personally NEVER rotate tires . . . for reason I've already stated in my first diatribe . . . but that's just me . I want to see if there's a problem in one wheel/position or not and rotating a tire will just hide the problem maker and wear two tires out faster than necessary . I really squeak (US for cheap) when my tires get mistreated from mechanical problems . . . so I like to know quickly what's going wrong . "Pulling" can be an effect of bad caster/camber . . but that'd have to be 'way off to actually feel from the seat of the pants . Dragging brakes causing a pull just doesn't happen much any more . . . there can be exceptions though . Defective tires can be a pull-generator . . but Dunlops are pretty good . . . my 2nd choice for rubber . It also depends on the country of origin for the brand tires you got too . . . there's a code on the casing of the tire you can investigate if you like . I am a Remington Tire ( . remingtontire . us/Pages%20II/tirecatalog . html" target="_blank">www . remingtontire . us) dealer myself, and I run them exclusively . Even though retired, I still hold my seller's license for the line and buy them for friends and myself for less than dealer's cost + sales tax of course . . 1986 K5 Blazer = 33x12 . 50R 15 Remington Wide Brutes RV 1989 Isuzu Amigo = 32x11 . 50R 15 Remington Wide Brutes RV 2002 Chevy Astrovan = 235x75R 15 Remington Emeralds, Speed-Rated SR	SurferJoe46 (51)
572782	2007-07-27 04:11:00	Thanks for comments SJ and others . . . . This is my first 4WD . . . . so taking a bit of getting used to . Needed for two adults, two (sometimes five) kids and two dogs! Also getting used to the fuel consumption . Haven't had it long enough to develop a sense of humour about it yet, so that's a sore point, for want of a better expression!!! :confused: Next thread: calculating fuel consumption! Maths ain't my strong point .	allblack (6574)
572783	2007-07-27 06:57:00	I asked for, and presumably got, 90/10 tyres. Explained to the guy that it will used mainly open road, and occasionally playing with the 4WD on a very dodgy beach in Wanganui. He proffered......(walking out to the car)....(passed the dogs who have AGAIN crapped on the pathway!)....Dunlop Grandtrek's 265/70/16 which (from my limited knowledge of tyres/tires )appear to have no directional (?) look to the tread pattern. Hope I got what I wanted. :confused: after a quick goggle it looks like you got tarseal tyres, there certainly do not look like AT tyres.	tweak'e (69)
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