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Thread ID: 81664	2007-08-03 03:22:00	Bridge Disaster In US	SurferJoe46 (51)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
576076	2007-08-05 03:56:00	No. Nor did they have machines. Or council consent processes. Or unions. Or capitalism. Or anything other than manpower and the desire to not have to do the damn thing again. So they got built quickly (considering) and properly.And sometimes they didn't (www.google.co.nz).	Graham L (2)
576077	2007-08-05 04:20:00	And sometimes they didn't (www.google.co.nz). .....As with the Tacoma Narrows suspension bridge... www.youtube.com	Terry Porritt (14)
576078	2007-08-05 04:48:00	:) :) You don't follow Cicero's brand of sarcasm :) :) However, the thread as usual has strayed, it's the Chinese fake high tensile bolts that we all have to be very frightened of.........any moment now there will be structural collapses happening all around us! They would however have been very useful in preventing the Cave Creek viewing platform collapse...any bolts would have been better than just nails. There were more casualties at Cave Creek than the US bridge disaster Well at Cave Creek the Government took the blame belatedly for there being no bolts at all !!! That was all bureaucrats and you know what I think of them.	Cicero (40)
576079	2007-08-05 05:11:00	That was all bureaucrats and you know what I think of them. Actually, quite the reverse :) Primarily the catastrophe arose because following the dissolution of the Forest Service with much staff reduction, and then more staff reductions following a Coopers and Lybrandt report, there was a serious lack of competent managerial staff, and lack of competent DOC engineers and qualified field workmen. Many of the best blokes had left anyway after the Forest Service went, and those good ones who remained tended to keep their heads down. It is all well documented. www.massey.ac.nz library.christchurch.org.nz etc etc	Terry Porritt (14)
576080	2007-08-05 10:26:00	Actually, quite the reverse :) Primarily the catastrophe arose because following the dissolution of the Forest Service with much staff reduction, and then more staff reductions following a Coopers and Lybrandt report, there was a serious lack of competent managerial staff, and lack of competent DOC engineers and qualified field workmen. Many of the best blokes had left anyway after the Forest Service went, and those good ones who remained tended to keep their heads down. It is all well documented. www.massey.ac.nz library.christchurch.org.nz etc etc Take my word for it,a bureaucrat gave the go ahead not a member of parliament.	Cicero (40)
576081	2007-08-05 12:11:00	[LIST=1] If the US pulls out of Iran/Iraq/Afghanistan, the hostilities are just gonna get really rolling. The suicide bombers and attacks will follow the military home to the US, and then on the the rest of the world as they will then believe they are invincible. sorry to go ot again, but is it me or are americans the only ones that don't realise if it wasn't for their constant interference with other countries they wouldn't be the victim of terrorist attacks in the first place? seriously, once britain announced it was to help the states in iraq i said they were making themselves a target and sure enough there was bus bombings all over london. and no surfer, we don't blame you, but anyone who volunteers to join the military, or votes in support of continued hostile action against foreign nations is atleast partly responsible for the resultant death and damage i suggest you stop watching fox "news"	motorbyclist (188)
576082	2007-08-05 18:06:00	Ewww . . . the waters run a little shallow there MB . . . What you MAY not realize is that the US has not had a "DRAFT" or forced induction into the armed services since VietNam . So . . . although I basically agree with your assumption of guilt or innocence in the military, for the past generation there are only volunteers in the military . . . . I believe you had granted some moral immunity to those who were in foreign lands against their will . And . . . . . as I see it, all share the responsibility and guilt of murder and mayhem under the color of military authority . And (another "and") . . . there may well BE those who protest their presence in the MidEast, but that's usually those who are upset about getting called up when they had joined the reserves as a way to get free/cheap college educations and benefits from the government . They joined for a free ride and got caught in the swirl of post 9-11 . That's all . Now they have belated second thoughts and angry wishes . . . and we ALL know what a wish is . . right? Sleep with the devil and . . . . . you get something or other . . . I forget what .	SurferJoe46 (51)
576083	2007-08-05 20:52:00	The director of highways in the state said the bridge had some structural "problems" . . . :stare: Minnesota's bridges are actually some of the country's safest: Only 12 . 2 percent of the state's bridges are rated "structurally deficient" or "functionally obsolete," ranking it third best behind Arizona (10 percent) and Nevada (12 percent), according to 2006 data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics . :groan: :lol: Washington, D . C . , has the country's least safe bridges, with 63 percent of the district's 245 bridges rated either structurally deficient or functionally obsolete . A bridge is rated "structurally deficient" if it's in poor condition and is deemed ill-equipped to handle the demands of the traffic load it carries, according to Susan Lane, manager of codes and standards with the American Society of Civil Engineers, which evaluates bridge safety . . go . com/US/story?id=3440879&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312" target="_blank">abcnews . go . com	Morpheus1 (186)
576084	2007-08-05 21:15:00	:stare: Minnesota's bridges are actually some of the country's safest: Only 12 . 2 percent of the state's bridges are rated "structurally deficient" or "functionally obsolete," ranking it third best behind Arizona (10 percent) and Nevada (12 percent), according to 2006 data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics . :groan: :lol: Washington, D . C . , has the country's least safe bridges, with 63 percent of the district's 245 bridges rated either structurally deficient or functionally obsolete . A bridge is rated "structurally deficient" if it's in poor condition and is deemed ill-equipped to handle the demands of the traffic load it carries, according to Susan Lane, manager of codes and standards with the American Society of Civil Engineers, which evaluates bridge safety . . go . com/US/story?id=3440879&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312" target="_blank">abcnews . go . com In MY world, a bridge that is deficient means that it is physically dangerous and will likely fail under normal use by vehicles under normal circumstances . Nowhere in my imagination can I consider a bridge that is too small or undersized for full traffic flow or utilization as something deficient . It's just too small or antiquated, but not dangerous to use . "Functionally obsolete" usually means that it is too short or has obstructions on it that don't permit newer, larger water traffic to pass under/through . Maybe it doesn't raise high enough any more . . . or the powerplant needs updating . . but the bridge ITSELF is OK for vehicular traffic . Maybe in other words, the wrong color would now qualify as obsolete or deficient too . What you DON'T see is the vast highways and bridges that run all across the states . . it is so vast that it would make you see that there is indeed a lot to maintain and inspect and quantify every day . Also remember that there are a lot of abandoned bridges . . even covered-bridges that are off the maintenance schedules or have been given to historical societies for self care and use by them . The huge number of those old wooden bridges are also factored into the head count . So . . "London Bridges" are NOT falling down . . even the old London Bridge is in sad shape too . . and we moved it to Nevada anyway . It's the reason that Nevada has the poor rating . Nevada has about the best road and highway program in the whole US . . . it's the casino tax monies that make it so . About Wash DC's bridges . . they were built by Paul Revere and Benjamin Franklin and some Frenchman called Pierre-Charles L'Enfant . . . they are old and can fall if they want to . The bridges, not the men; they are all dead .	SurferJoe46 (51)
576085	2007-08-05 21:32:00	And sometimes they didn't (www.google.co.nz). I said the ROMANS. This was a couple of thousand years ago. Not the 1800s.	pctek (84)
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