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Thread ID: 81771	2007-08-06 21:15:00	I've just gone off Peanut butter	Digby (677)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
577225	2007-08-07 02:54:00	Instead of worrying about pesticides, I'd be a bit more concerned about the traditional Chinese fertilizers they have used for millenia :), though I do think it makes much more ecological sense than flushing it all down the toilet as we do in the West:thumbs: Not only China. When I was a teenager (admittedly some time ago now) in North Canterbury, I used to work for a tomato grower in the school hols. He used to drive up to the local sewage farm, load up with the solids left over from the waste process, and use it to fertilise the tomato houses I was working in. I used to find teaspoons, kid's toys, and other (ahem) undigested solids in the soil I was working with... I never went on any of these trips to pick up the waste, but the boss's nephews had, and they told me that the crop of tomatoes (resulting from undigested seeds) growing on the waste heap was very impressive...	John H (8)
577226	2007-08-07 03:28:00	Well, I have gone back to making my own bread again as a tiny protest against the gumberment enforcing medication on the whole population by legislating for the compulsory addition of folic acid to bread - an unnecessary requirement for most of the population, and added in doses that will not be medically significant for the target population unless they eat 11 slices of bread per day . . . So if I have to make my own peanut butter, I guess I will . What can be wrong with peanuts that would not be removed by processing into pnut butter? Is it pesticide residue that is the problem in using pnuts from some countries? If so, which countries? I doubt that Amerika is squeaky clean as far as pesticide residue is concerned . . . Must be a shortage of wimmen in NZ . . . and with that statement, I might have the reason for your anger! For instance, we have about 53% of our population registering as female . . so I don't understand the imbalance in NZ . Folic acid is EXTREMELY important for fetus growth in the womb . . . and that's the reason for the folic acid . Without adequate supplies of folic acid, spina bifida is more likely in newborns . Partial c/p: Adding Folic Acid To Flour Significantly Reduces Congenital Malformations Science Daily — Dr . Philippe De Wals of Université Laval's Department of Social and Preventive Medicine has published a study clearly indicating that the addition of folic acid to flours has led to a 46% drop in the incidence of congenital neural tube deformation (mainly anencephaly and spina bifida) in Canada . Such deformations either result in the child's death or in major health problems, including physical and learning disabilities . Dr . De Wals's work as head of a team of a dozen Canadian researchers appears today in the New England Journal of Medicine . Canada decided to add folic acid to all flour produced in the country because formation of the neural tube in embryos is particularly intense during the first four weeks of pregnancy, which is before a lot of women even know they're pregnant . Since half of Canadian pregnancies are unplanned and the human body can't store folic acid, it is better to integrate folic acid into the food chain than to focus exclusively on taking vitamin supplements," stated Dr . De Wals . Health Canada still recommends taking folic acid supplements to women in their child-bearing years . Source: . sciencedaily . com/releases/2007/07/070712134539 . htm" target="_blank">www . sciencedaily . com But it should not be a problem in NZ . . for, as it states in this (Date: July 14, 2007) report: " . . . . . Currently, only Canada, the United States, and Chile require that folic acid be added to flour . The effectiveness of this practice, as demonstrated by Dr . De Wals's team, could encourage other countries to follow suit . Every year, approximately 200,000 cases of spina bifida and anencephaly occur worldwide . Adding folic acid to food could reduce that number by half . " As to the MALE requirements for folic acid . . well, if you like to think, procreate and have much muscular control and ability, then read on: " . . . . Folic acid (vitamin B9) review • Basics: water-soluble B vitamin, folate occurs naturally in food, folic acid is a synthetic folate form . • Benefits: folic acid is crucial for proper brain function, folic acid plays an essential role in human growth and development . • Dosage: 400 mcg per day for adults, 600 mcg per day for pregnant women, and 500 mcg for nursing women . • Sources: dark green leafy vegetables, oranges, lentils, pinto beans, garbanzo beans, asparagus, orange juice, broccoli, cauliflower, liver and brewer's yeast . • Deficiency: deficiency during pregnancy increases the risk for neural tube defects, folate deficiency is linked to cervical dysplasia . • Overdose: high doses (above 15,000 mcg) causes stomach problems, sleep problems, skin reactions, and seizures . Folic acid (Vitamin B9) deficiency results in: Folic acid deficiency is one of the most common nutritional deficiencies and has been observed in alcoholics, pregnant women, people living in institutions e . g . nursing homes, people with absorption problems such as ulcerative colitis and people taking certain medications e . g . , methotrexate . Folic acid deficiency during pregnancy increases the risk for neural tube defects including cleft palate, spina bifida, and brain damage . The requirement for folic acid increases considerably during pregnancy . Deficiencies of folic acid during pregnancy are associated with low birth weight and an increased incidence of neural tube defects in infants . Folate deficient women who become pregnant are at greater risk of giving birth to low birth weight, premature, and/or infants with neural tube defects . Signs of folic acid deficiency are often subtle . In most cases a folic acid deficiency occurs without any symptoms . In severe cases of folic acid deficiency signs and symptoms such as: macrocytic anemia, weakness, tiredness, irritability, forgetfulness, difficulty breathing, anorexia, diarrhea, weight loss, headache, palpitations and inflammation of the tongue may occur . Folic acid deficiency causes mood disorders and low levels may play a role in depression, possibly due to a reduction in neurotransmitter levels . People with ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease (both inflammatory bowel diseases) often have low levels of folic acid in their blood cells . Folate deficiency appears to be linked to cervical dysplasia . A deficiency of folic acid has also been associated with peripheral vascular disease and coronary artery disease even in people with normal homocysteine levels . Source: . vitamins-supplements . org/folic-acid . php" target="_blank">www . vitamins-supplements . org So . . it is good for you . . gobble it up .	SurferJoe46 (51)
577227	2007-08-07 03:32:00	I just discovered as well that the peanut butter we are currently using was made in China. I should be more careful reading labels at the supermarket. Can anyone recommend a brand that is made in NZ? Are there any such brands? Yes, It's called "home made"	theother1 (3573)
577228	2007-08-07 03:44:00	The best tomatoes I have ever eaten where the ones that sprung up in the free "soil" the sewage works in Hamilton gave away once it had been processed Right, the sewage works down in Poole, Dorset, used to give away free processed sewage. As you say excellent for tomatoes, in fact there were so many tomato seeds in it, it wasn't necessary to buy any seed! It also used to have a faint aroma of soap suds or washing powder. It worked well on the chalk soil of our garden. However the Chinese system uses raw human manure or 'humanure' and urine and it is wise apparently, never to eat uncooked produce. It makes good sense to recycle the stuff though,instead of using inorganic fertilizers as we do so much. Edit: I read in a Henry Williamson book, 'Story of a Norfolk Farm', that pressed London sewage was used on farms during the depression years.	Terry Porritt (14)
577229	2007-08-07 03:45:00	Not only China . When I was a teenager (admittedly some time ago now) in North Canterbury, I used to work for a tomato grower in the school hols . He used to drive up to the local sewage farm, load up with the solids left over from the waste process, and use it to fertilise the tomato houses I was working in . I used to find teaspoons, kid's toys, and other (ahem) undigested solids in the soil I was working with . . . I never went on any of these trips to pick up the waste, but the boss's nephews had, and they told me that the crop of tomatoes (resulting from undigested seeds) growing on the waste heap was very impressive . . . Good point . . wrong, but a good point which I shall set at ease now . Plants do NOT uptake solid waste . Excrement, spoons and general garbage do NOT migrate into the food chain as you seem to believe . In animals, that is different . . . as a sow fed garbage and waste is likely to be infected with diseases and pestilence or bacteria . Flora and crops do NOT digest foods like an animal . . they have no gizzards, stomachs, intestines or other alimentary canal-like devices to achieve nutrition . This misconception has run in it's heyday, to the inclusion of plants, fruits and vegetables in the same paintbrush condemnation as tainted meat, eggs and sea/shellfish . Living animals CAN be so contaminated by viruses, amoebic invasions, worms, ciliated bacteria and other nasties . If you wash the fruit/vegetable/plant/leaf etc in clean water and some sort of surfactant (dish soap . . . a DASH of soap) to release any protein glues that the contaminant might have used to affix itself to the foodstuff, then you are gonna be safe . . . safer than you can imagine . Wanna squirm a little? Try this: Ever eat . . . say, an apple? Sure you have! Ever nibble close to the stem and try to eat every last piece of the fruit? Sure, you have and you know it! Well . . . ever see those tiny little flies that everybody calls "fruit flies" (Drosophila melanogaster)? Guess what? They came from the larvae of the adult fly that glued them to the fruit . . . and you just ate a lot of the larva before they hatched! You see . . . if you bother to practice SOME semblance of cleanliness in your own food supplies, you'd be a lot better of . If you eat clean, well-washed, unbroken skinned fruits and vegetables, then you are pretty safe . Now . . toothpaste and tainted clams and mussels in those flat tins from Indonesia are another thing . Human wastes CAN get into that food chain very easily . NEXT TIME: DNA-modified foods - Are They Safe To Eat?	SurferJoe46 (51)
577230	2007-08-07 03:57:00	Dear SJ Thank you for the two lectures. I don't think you read either of my posts particularly carefully. Regarding folic acid - I know all that; my objection is to compulsory medication of a whole population (and not very effectively in terms of dosage) to get folic acid into a small proportion of the population. My wife took folic acid when she was pregnant, as did my daughter and daughter in law. The amount of folic acid the government has legislated for will be a sub clinical dose. Incidentally NZ has gone down the route of adding folic acid to bread; Orstralia has decided to add it to flour, so making your own bread wouldn't avoid the issue in Oz. Incidentally, as you will have seen from this post, the July 14, 2007 report you quote is out of date. You can add Oz and NZ to that list, though I don't know whether the new regime has actually commenced yet. Regarding waste - I made no comment in my post about the points you are raising so I didn't need my mind set at rest. I have no idea where you got the notion that I believe that "Excrement, spoons and general garbage ... migrate into the food chain". For what it is worth, I did at the time of working there, wonder about the safety of working with the soil with my hands and then inadvertently transferring bugs to my mouth, but not even as a teenager did I believe that eating the tomatoes carried a health risk.	John H (8)
577231	2007-08-07 04:00:00	There's probably a good reason why Chinese people rarely eat vegetables raw - even lettuce, tomatoes etc. are cooked.	somebody (208)
577232	2007-08-07 04:06:00	Too many of you are too skeptical buying food from China. Sure, to a very extended degree I am disgusted and angered by the Chinese and their unsafe and selfish practices when it comes to producing and packeting foods. I have to note, however, that my whole family have been eating (maybe a couple hundred) tins and cans of foods direct from China. And I need to say that no one in my family has ever gotten any food poisoning from that. It may be a matter of when, not if though. There's probably a good reason why Chinese people rarely eat vegetables raw - even lettuce, tomatoes etc. are cooked. We can cook, unlike you Europeans! :p (joking, I love some European foods myself)	qazwsxokmijn (102)
577233	2007-08-07 04:11:00	Dear SJ Thank you for the two lectures . I don't think you read either of my posts particularly carefully . Regarding folic acid - I know all that; my objection is to compulsory medication of a whole population (and not very effectively in terms of dosage) to get folic acid into a small proportion of the population . My wife took folic acid when she was pregnant, as did my daughter and daughter in law . The amount of folic acid the government has legislated for will be a sub clinical dose . Incidentally NZ has gone down the route of adding folic acid to bread; Orstralia has decided to add it to flour, so making your own bread wouldn't avoid the issue in Oz . Regarding waste - I made no comment in my post about the points you are raising so I didn't need my mind set at rest . I have no idea where you got the notion that I believe that "Excrement, spoons and general garbage . . . migrate into the food chain" . For what it is worth, I did at the time of working there, wonder about the safety of working with the soil with my hands and then inadvertently transferring bugs to my mouth, but not even as a teenager did I believe that eating the tomatoes carried a health risk . Point taken . . . but in #2, I was responding to the "yuck" factor that people with little or no scientific or actual knowledge in food growing and crops, fruits, sheep or cats would get all obfuscated . I know you didn't make a comment, negative or positive . . . but I could hear the collective moans of those people and decided to head them off at the pass (an old John Wayne phrase) . As to #1, well . . . there are some people, and then again, there are other people who don't care to have any adulterant in their foods at all . That's a shame that they feel that way . Folic acid is not counterindicated in the male population however either . It is a benefit to us guys for reason I so eruditely proffered in my post to your post to the original post by the original postee . Perhaps they ("they" is such a lovely term . . . covers anybody who isn't "us" . . right?) liked the good ol' days when there were no watchdog groups who demanded and usually got control of the quality and purity of the foods in their respective countries . This China thing is obviously out of control though . From defective tires to tainted toothpaste, they have a very bad track record of sanitation, purity, food cleanliness and appropriate additives . I say that we watch the paper trail . . read here: money and the palms that it crosses to see where the real problem is . An inspector on the take will sell his own unborn child for a buck . One thing I leave you to comment upon: raw foods - safe or not?	SurferJoe46 (51)
577234	2007-08-07 12:29:00	(joking, I love some European foods myself)But I hope you don't get too addicted to NZ mince and cheese pies or KFC! ;)	Greg (193)
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