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Thread ID: 81824	2007-08-08 08:52:00	What power do teachers and school staff have?	jermsie (6820)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
578183	2007-08-08 10:10:00	When I went to school in Rhodesia if you were seen wearing any part of the school uniform and not all of it or if your tie was off or your socks down you would be reported to the Headmaster and you would get "3 of the best" for bringing the school into disrepute because you looked untidy. The rationale was that the school uniform was part of the school and you either wear all of it or none and you wear it properly. Not allowed to be seen outside the school without your hat on either. My Headmaster was the former heavyweight boxing champion of Rhodesia and also Financial Secretary of the Rhodesian Front Party (Ian Smith and UDI), when you got the cane from him you bled. He gave me "3 of the best" twice for having my hair touching my collar at the back, a day before I went back on the train, home to Zambia; I wanted my hair long because I would be seeing my girlfriend lol. Got expelled from that school in the end, but that is another story.	zqwerty (97)
578184	2007-08-08 10:51:00	Well of course these days it is all about RIGHTS. Does the school teach about RESPONSIBILITIES? Powers may not come into it. According to the Transport Act 1982 I once had the power to "Inspect, test or examine any part of any motor vehicle on any road." A road was defined as "any place to which the public has access to whether as of right or not" So let us take this one:- You live on a dairy farm. The tanker track gate is not padlocked and even if it was I may be able to lift the gate(s) from gudgeon pins thus bypassing the lock. This gives me access. Then I find a person driving a Tractor, Quad who is under the age of 15 and therefore will not hold a drivers licence under New Zealand law. Then I take the said motor vehicle apart as I am allowed to inspect etc After this I elect to take this to Court. So I issue a summons. After all I do have the evidence. Now I am fairly sure this matter should not get to Court as I believe this way of doing things would be an abuse of my POWER. No different to infringement notices either. Instant fines do not impress me. Bill Gates could drive a car in New Zealand at 200KMH without a drivers licence and get his car confiscated. In a Court there used to be the Magistrate who asked "what do you earn?" and the penalty reflected your ability to pay along with reasonably suitable punishment. So hopefully you did not make the same mistake twice.	Sweep (90)
578185	2007-08-08 11:08:00	In Finland the fine can be proportional to your income. Remeber reading about a Nokia CEO who got fined 100 000 for driving pissed. tedheath	tedheath (537)
578186	2007-08-08 11:10:00	Well of course these days it is all about RIGHTS. Does the school teach about RESPONSIBILITIES? Powers may not come into it. Didnt know how else to word it. Interesting discussion. Cheers.	jermsie (6820)
578187	2007-08-08 11:31:00	Didnt know how else to word it. Interesting discussion. Cheers. Well it might be interesting. Where is the rest of your input? Word it differently to put your point across if needed. Write 100 lines tonight.	Sweep (90)
578188	2007-08-08 12:07:00	Funny that, If you refuse the punishment then the entire thing falls over. They can't lay a hand on you, cant stop you coming and going as you please, cant force you to do anything against your will. Jeez Metla, at risk of lighting a fire under your ass, you are quite wrong there. Firstly, and just to clarify the original situation, the school is in loco parentis from the time the student leaves the home of his or her parents or caregivers until he or she returns home or otherwise diverts into a parentally sanctioned activity such as sports, music or whatever, but not including hanging round the local mall etc. That is a matter of law, not school opinion, and the parents also assent to the rules Schools apply to that situation when they sign up at the time of enrolment. It does not usurp parental rights, it just clarifies the school's legal responsibilities for the health, safety and welfare of the student while in the school's care. Secondly, yes, students can and occasionally do refuse punishments, but if they keep it up their actions fall into the legally recognised class of behaviour known as "continual disobedience" and can then be subject to formal discipline by the Board of Trustees. However, that does not happen until all alternatives have been tried and exhausted. Typical behaviours include refusal to wear correct uniform, ignoring teachers' instructions, truancy, lateness, not doing homework, smoking, disruptive behaviour in the classroom and anything else that is contrary to normal standards of tolerance/discipline, and is repeated with deliberate defiance or just plain orneryness. The Trustees hear the case and have access to all the records of behaviour, and the details of counselling and/or any other interventions tried in an attempt to get the student back to non-disruptive behaviour and constructive learning. Depending on the severity of the case and whether any otions are left for further counselling, the Trustees can return the student to school unconditionally, or with conditions, or on extended suspension but served at school. If the student does not respond to any of that, or indicates during the hearing that they will do as they please etc and discussions do not produce any hope of change, then they are either excluded (if under 16) and have to find another school to attend, or if over 16 they are expelled. The concept of forcing students to comply is outdated and we rely on persuasion to achieve the outcomes. We are successful in around 75% of cases, and the other 25% are a mixed bag of continued education with barely acceptable standards of behaviour, and rapid exits. What turns most of the students around is that they come in to the disciplinary hearing expecting a bollocking and a load of criticism from a bunch of old farts, but instead get engaged in a sensible discussion that treats them as individuals with rights and feelings. We ask questions, listen to them carefully, acknowledge criticisms they may have about how they have been treated, and funnily enough, some of the "tough guys & girls' can't handle that and tears are quite common. Some come to us with backgrounds that would make you weep and we do our damndest to give them another chance for a better future. We have a better than 95% success rate with our reinstatements, the failures being confined to unprovoked physical violence, drugs and arson. So, the entire thing does not fall over, the students cannot continue to behave like that with impunity, we can do something, and our preferred something is to gain their cooperation so as to get them learning again. Sometimes we fail, but we can still do something, we can remove them from the school so that good students don't have to put up with their silly, disruptive and immature behaviour. Incidentally, the school has a mix from decile 1 through to decile 10 so we see all types, and behavioural problems are spread pretty evenly across the deciles with the spoilt rich kids sometimes the hardest to work with. I've been doing this for seven years, and I can tell you that the greatest thrill I have ever experienced is seeing kids we thought were virtually beyond hope when we reinstated them walking up the aisle few years later at Senior Prizegiving to receive an award for their achievements. Now that makes it worth the effort to listen to them and give another chance. Cheers Billy 8-{)	Billy T (70)
578189	2007-08-08 12:26:00	Thats to be commended Billy, And I'm 100 percent sure you speak the truth for your school. I'm also sure you do a great job. But, even though NZ is smallish, its still a lot bigger then your corner of it.	Metla (12)
578190	2007-08-08 13:46:00	the school has a mix from decile 1 through to decile 10How can a school have a mix of deciles? It's my understanding that a school is given a decile grading according to its location and other criteria; so it has a grade of 1 or 10 or whatever, but not a mix?	Greg (193)
578191	2007-08-08 17:13:00	Geez...the schools HERE are fortunate if the students don't come naked...they might as well anyway... Pants around the knees, boobflesh on both the girls and guys..tattoos and body piercings, chains attached to nether areas.... There's a sign at the front of the school: "Students are requested to unload their firearms before entering the school grounds".	SurferJoe46 (51)
578192	2007-08-08 19:36:00	How can a school have a mix of deciles? It's my understanding that a school is given a decile grading according to its location and other criteria; so it has a grade of 1 or 10 or whatever, but not a mix? Think about it Greg. Every school has a decile mix. It may have a decile rating of 5 but that does not mean that every student falls into that category, the majority maybe. Billy T was not talking about the decile rating of his school, just that the school has a mix of poor and rich kids which combined will establish what the decile rating of the school should be.	Safari (3993)
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