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Thread ID: 81976	2007-08-12 22:37:00	Should the driving age be raised to 18 ?	Digby (677)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
580300	2007-11-29 20:45:00	OT Anyone have any idea why the overhang is referenced to the front seat rather than the front wheels or the front of the vehicle (like the need to have a flag) . The front seat on something like a Rolls Royce is a lot further back than a Hiace van. Then that is a problem with the test it's self. The learners license tests are multi choice. There was: -2m from the front edge of the front seat -3m from the front edge of the front seat -4m from the front edge of the from seat (and one more, but I can't remember if it was 1m or 5m?) Originally I thought it was a silly question, for the same reasons you mentioned. But in the Official New Zealand Road Code, that is what it states.	TylerR (12656)
580301	2007-11-29 21:26:00	By that reasoning, we should just go ahead and give 14 year olds licenses too. Hell - why not 12 or 13 year olds. As long as you can reach the pedals, you're ok. You might look forward to driving to and from parties, but the rest of us innocent road users probably won't look forward to you having that privilege. Anyway, what concerns me more than the driving age is the whole driving education process (or apparent lack of) in this country. There are plenty of morons on the road, male and female of all ages, who should never have been granted a license. Take the time to teach people properly and it will pay dividends. I cringe at the number of people who I see tailgating or not using their indicators correctly (or at all) - they were obviously never taught any 'roadcraft' at all. I'm unsure how old you are, Legod. But for example, when I was 10 there was a HUGE difference from when I was 8. Now if you ask me any difference, I would have no idea - any 8-year old, or any 10-year old would seem the same to me. There are enough pros and cons as it is with the age being 15 so obviously it would be redicelulous to lower the driving age. I KNOW for a fact, that when I was 13, I was mature for my age, but I still wasn't mature or "ready" to drive a car. ^^^^So you may not know that, but most teenagers are much the same. At school, there are a lot less silly 4th and 5th formers (who are 14-15) than there are 3rd formers (13-14). There are scientific facts I wont deniy why a 15 year-old shouldn't drive, but the brain isn't fully developed until the age of 22 (at that stage, it would then be ready to drive). Even by putting it up to 18, there would still be bad, hopeless and reckless drivers on the road. As for your comment about driving home from parties (one thing I am looking forward too): I am seasonable driver as it is, so why would driving home from a party be any different? The reason why I am looking forward to it, is so MY PARENTS don't have to, I'm sure that will be the last thing they WANT to do. Imagine you are 16-17-18, would you want your parents driving you to and from parties? Would they want to be driving you to and from parties? But that is not the main thing, I'm most of all looking forward to driving to work and to school, both things my parents wont have to do (and so they wont make me late, if I'm late it's my fault). So if you got anything bad out of that comment it's untrue. Laura You would be surprised how many teens would put their car to good use. The majority of them would be mainly excited to do other things with it though (like show it off). I'm much the same, I've got a really good stereo in my car ($500), I'm in the process of getting good speakers, I'm also looking and air scoops and the car it's self is very sporty and cost $2500 when I could have bought the likes of a Toyota Corolla for $800. The reason(s) why I stated the "positive" reasons why I wanted a car/my license was because I see two sides to this. Most people can't, because either people belong to one age group, or another. BUT - the practical uses of my car are the MAIN reasons why I got it/my license. Everything else are just things I'm proud of on top of that. Other teenagers are much the same, but they aren't likely to say where they want to drive it and why. (Such as driving to school, to save parents time*) *Ok, it may be for another reason, a lot of teenagers wouldn't care about that I have to be honest Your last comment too about it being unfair: I believe it is very unfair, the driving age has been 15 in New Zealand for AT LEAST the past 50 years - it should have been changed A LONG TIME AGO if ever. I've noticed at school, the people with REALLY good cars, their parents bought them for them, and they didn't mind if they drove without a license. The people with cars like mine (1.5Ls or so) have either bought them, themselves or their parents have thought about it and have projected good values onto them. I tried convincing my dad to let my buy a 3L, V6 car (a Mitsubishi GTO) but he said it would probably be too powerful for the stage that I'm at (the fastest I drive at the moment is 45ks, I pullover if there are too many cars behind for too long). Limiting the car is always a good idea. Teenagers/minors with their license should only be able to drive a 1.5L (or perhaps up to a 1.6) - seriously though, my car does reach the speed ok, but it's not FAST. There are many sides to this, it's impossible to get everyone to see it from everyone's views before making their mind (I admit I'm a little narrow minded at times, possibly in some of these posts). Digby Not all teenagers are the same, my friend at work (whos 16) got his car impounded for doing donuts (not donuts, but I can't think of what they are called). Another one of my friends at work (whos 18) got his license taken off him for drink driving (for 6 months). My mum's friends' son who is 17 or 18 has NEVER got a ticket and NEVER had his car impounded and NEVER had his license taken away. Why? Because hes never done anything wrong. Laws are there for a reason, to stop bad drivers (well, that's what road laws are for). So yeah, why should people who aren't going to break the law be limited too? In reply to most people (lol) My dad teaches me to drive, he has some bad habits but DOES NOT pass them onto me. I do as he says (and he says the right things) and not as he does. It's really coming down to the individual parent. And example: I was driving home from work, there were NO CARS in the car park so I cut through the car parks (shouldn't be a problem?) - my dad said that I shouldn't do that. So there are things like that, that when people teach others, it brings out their "good side". (Not in all cases however). LASTLY I don't know who here watches the news? But they have gone through the first step to put the driving age up to 16. From my understanding though, they wont be able to take people who have there licenses currently as they are under the old system. -----Sorry for my long post lol, lots of things push my buttons.	TylerR (12656)
580302	2007-11-30 00:51:00	How boring am I? I've been checking this post a lot today, to see any replies. But in reply to the punctuation Laura, I agree - thinking now, I'm not sure what xxxhello actually means? *One point to you*	TylerR (12656)
580303	2007-11-30 01:41:00	22 year olds may have fully developed physical attributes in the brain to drive a car. Saying less than 22 haven't may well be right, but by 18 many people have developed mental maturity, where they actually have more respect for others on the road and patience. Most 14 year old kids thinking they'd be driving next year are too immature to handle a car. Most drive with a blind mental state, and have little or no consideration as to how their driving may affect other road users. For example, my little brother's friend just got his learner's a few weeks ago. He had been looking forward to it for years, and secretly he took his mother's car and went on a joyride which caused him to crash into a neighbour's gate, losing his license and probably some kind of hefty discipline from his parents. I'm not saying all 15 year olds are like that, but most of their motivation to drive is blind as in having no real intention to get to destinations. Instead, they drive thinking their friends will envy them somewhat. Furthermore, many think it's cool as they think they can drive a car so well they can drive more than 55k in a 50k zone. It's that kind of attitude that makes most 15 year olds immature to be driving a car. I myself got my learner's at 16, now I am 17.. I hadn't been thinking about it myself as I was too lazy, instead I was pressured by my parents to get my learner's. Now I have my restricted, I do not think of myself as an elite driver. I've made a few mistakes as I learn to drive, but I can assure you I don't have the deadly attitudes many 15 year olds have. I have grown the mental maturity to respect other road users and have no other intentions to drive other than to get from A to B.	qazwsxokmijn (102)
580304	2007-11-30 02:08:00	How boring am I? I've been checking this post a lot today, to see any replies. But in reply to the punctuation Laura, I agree - thinking now, I'm not sure what xxxhello actually means? *One point to you* Say it once, I'll say it again, put throttle limiters on all >21 yr old's cars. They will get up to the speed limit.....eventually, however there will be no burn outs, fast acceleration take off or races and everyone get from A to B...Everyones happy.	SolMiester (139)
580305	2007-12-02 07:06:00	Say it once, I'll say it again, put throttle limiters on all >21 yr old's cars. They will get up to the speed limit.....eventually, however there will be no burn outs, fast acceleration take off or races and everyone get from A to B...Everyones happy. I agree, that would be a good idea. It still wouldn't stop people doing 100Ks in 50K zones (infact it would possibly encourage it more - if they can't speed on the open road). BUT - I'm not sure if anyone will agree with this, but if need be and you need to pass, depending on how fast the person is your passing, sometimes to pass safely it is needed to go a little faster than the speed limit (ONLY while passing). Say for example, the person you want to pass is going 90Ks, it would be safest to pass them going 104Ks . PLEASE NOTE ..... I am only saying what I think I remember my dad telling me QUITE some time ago, I'm not sure if he would still think that - or maybe I even heard him wrong. Not sure. Of course then you get into who is able to pass etc (if they are good enough, if they leave enough space etc). BUT - reckless and bad drivers wont be good at passing, and by limiting their speed and possibly having a law saying they can't pass (or can't pass going faster) WONT stop them from being reckless. ============== In reply to qazwsxokmijn: People take their own values, and project them into others. I personally do that A LOT. I'm generally kind, forgiving, seasonable, trustworthy, logical, (but also sometimes) gullible (and many other things). Since I believe I would be sensable enough in many respects to have a license, even though I know it's not true, I imagine other teenagers would be the same. WHEN they most likely aren't going to be. So what I'm saying is, you might be the same. If you know immature people, or if you were immature when you were younger (perhaps) you may also except that from other people. Also as I've explained in other posts, there are many reasons why teenagers want to get their licenses. I want mine (particually) to get from point A to B, without having to worry my parents, but I've just bought quite a "cool car" that is neat to show off. I like telling people I've got my license. I like showing people my car. I like driving my car. But that does not mean that the reason (or any of the other REASONS) that I want to get* a license are unjustified. Many people are the same, but they will focus on the things I said above. *I do have my license, but I mean for OTHER people who want to get their license who don't already have it. Second thing to add actually: When I turned 14, I thought YAY I can get my license next year (the first time I really thought about getting my license). Right then, I wasn't confident enough with that kind of thing to drive (which was a reason why I shouldn't have been able to get my license). However a lot of people (my friends) who were 14 would have been too immature at that stage. Now being 15, people have grown up a lot in the last 1-2 years. At this age until about 20 I would say, feelings, values, attitudes and most importantly maturity change. That's something people don't always take into consideration, because the age your at (wether it be 16 or 56) you don't realise how much you have grown in the past (for example if your 40, you probably wont realise how different being 13 was than being 15). Ok, to be honest, does that make sense?	TylerR (12656)
580306	2007-12-02 18:14:00	When they lowered the drinking age from 20 to 18, most adults did not think it was a good idea. Then after the law was passed I often heard early twenties people ring talk back and say it was the worst thing the government had ever done (and remember these were the people who the law would have affected !) It is now surely proved not to have been a good idea as we are getting lots more young kids binge drinking, causing mayhem in public and drunk driving. So in my mind the driving age is a related/similar topic. The thing is that when you are young and wanting to drive you will be able to drive when you reach a certain age... you will just have to wait ! Regards Digby	Digby (677)
580307	2007-12-03 05:32:00	By having the driving AND drinking age at 18, that would encourage 18-year olds to drink and drive (because suddenly they will have these new things they can do). The drinking age was only lowered to gain votes, it shouldn't have been lowered. (So THAT is what should change).	TylerR (12656)
580308	2007-12-03 10:48:00	The thing is that when you are young and wanting to drive you will be able to drive when you reach a certain age... you will just have to wait ! for school leavers who are 16 years old, not being able to drive can make life very difficult... as usual it's only a small minority that ruin it for everyone else that said, if they leave the motorcycle licence at 15 and raise the car one, young drivers will learn how dangerous the road really is, how bad and blind drivers typically are, what the term "blind spot" means, and will find it relatively very difficult to kill people. plus they're cheap to run, less load on traffic/parking, and better for the environment!	motorbyclist (188)
580309	2007-12-03 17:23:00	for school leavers who are 16 years old, not being able to drive can make life very difficult... as usual it's only a small minority that ruin it for everyone else that said, if they leave the motorcycle licence at 15 and raise the car one, young drivers will learn how dangerous the road really is, how bad and blind drivers typically are, what the term "blind spot" means, and will find it relatively very difficult to kill people. plus they're cheap to run, less load on traffic/parking, and better for the environment! :thumbs: Agree with everything there, except the age for car licences: 16 is wussing out. It should be 18 - but that wouldn't be popular with politicians (voting age). I would also say that a motorcycle licence should be mandatory before attaining a car licence, held for a minimum number of years and a minimum number of kilometres travelled, before a car licence could be applied for. Motorcycle would have to be of a limited power (NOT capacity). Three years on a motorcycle/scooter with say a minimum of 4000 km a year per year would give us car drivers with a bit of road sense (might even make them more aware of two-wheeled vehicles - motorised or not - when they finally get their car licence). This gets around the crybaby argument of "it would be so inconvenient!!!" (if/when the age is raised), for those so desperate to join the grown-ups on the road who have still not attained the grand old age of 15, and for those adults who also might be a atd inconvenienced by having to drive little Johnny to school - at least they could be semi-sure he would arrive alive!!!	johcar (6283)
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