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| Thread ID: 82439 | 2007-08-27 12:26:00 | Burglars apparently have rights, too | qazwsxokmijn (102) | PC World Chat |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 585196 | 2007-09-01 09:23:00 | ......Supposedly this difference arises through an individual's actions and that rights are therefore not universal - but this is not stated clearly... Ah yes but along with rights run certain obligations. You have the right to free speech but you have an obligation not to falsely cry "fire" in a crowded theatre. So people do abrogate their rights when they chose to ignore or deliberately breach the rules (laws) which glue our society together. It was considered by the government about ten years ago to remove ACC coverage from anyone hurt while committing a crime. I suspect it was too hard to define so quietly disappeared. |
Winston001 (3612) | ||
| 585197 | 2007-09-01 10:45:00 | Ah yes but along with rights run certain obligations. You have the right to free speech but you have an obligation not to falsely cry "fire" in a crowded theatre. Absolutely. Rights exist only in the presence of duties and vice versa. One implies the other. The notion of a fiduciary duty arises from this - this is when a person, or body of person's, is in a position of power or responsibility and they are thereby loaded with an extra duty of care toward those to whom they are responsible. So people do abrogate their rights when they chose to ignore or deliberately breach the rules (laws) which glue our society together. This is true - but due process must be followed and there are strict limits to the ability of those in power to remove the enjoyments of rights and liberties. In nearly all cases there is the possibility for those affected to seek reviews of such uses of power. In one of the few instances where the removal of rights and liberties is summary (or instant) - where the Police take a person into custody - the prisoner has the right to review before a judicial officer within 24 hours. |
Deane F (8204) | ||
| 585198 | 2007-09-01 12:03:00 | But why should (hardcore)crims have rites when they clearly are peices of sh*t? Sorry but to me you make a decision to rape anybody, murder etc you should lose all rites, put in a hole or shot in the head. | rob_on_guitar (4196) | ||
| 585199 | 2007-09-01 12:12:00 | Because burglars, rapists and murderers aren't actually pieces of sh*t. They're members of your community - whether you like it or not. You have to deal with them somehow because you don't just live in a sick society - you are a functioning part of it. When you enjoy the benefits of living in a collective you have to shoulder the burden of dealing with the less desirable outcomes. If you want society to start down the road of brutalising criminals then you ought to first take a look at the wealth of examples around the world and throughout history of where goverments have the power to mistreat criminals. And you ought to be willing to pull the trigger yourself if you're promoting that rapists or murderers be shot in the head. Especially when it's your own brother or mother that has committed the crime. |
Deane F (8204) | ||
| 585200 | 2007-09-01 12:18:00 | I would glady do it if thats what it took. What if they some idiot had raped your mum? You going to say 'Oh well thats society' and sit there and do nothing? That is why its getting sicker aint it? Im not pointing fingers because i wouldnt know how to change it, but it annoys the people who can just are so ....cant think of the word... soft? PC? I dont know, Im sure anyone who has had enough of our crim population and absolute joke of a court system knows what im talking about. Enough ranting from me...:badpc: |
rob_on_guitar (4196) | ||
| 585201 | 2007-09-01 20:05:00 | What if they some idiot had raped your mum? You going to say 'Oh well thats society' and sit there and do nothing? That is society. The "oh well" is your invention, however. If my mother was raped, I should be the last person allowed to affect the criminal justice process. This is one of the basic tenets of the legal principle known as natural justice - where a person who has an interest in the outcome of proceedings should not sit in judgment of thos proceedings - and by extension should not affect the process. The people I really fear are not criminals, they are the broad run of the population who think that crime is a simple problem and if we just take revenge on the criminals our problem will be solved. Im not pointing fingers because i wouldnt know how to change it, but it annoys the people who can just are so ....cant think of the word... soft? PC? You seem concerned about it - just not concerned enough to research it, perhaps? Try Greg Newbold's "The Problem of Prisons". It is locally written and locally focused. www.comsdev.canterbury.ac.nz I dont know, Im sure anyone who has had enough of our crim population and absolute joke of a court system knows what im talking about. That's your attitude to our court system? Oh well, that's a great pity as you've nowhere else to turn when you've been harmed or ripped off. Our court system is the way it is through 900 years of evolution. It doesn't quickly respond to fads of public opinion or the news media and it is quite independent. It is one of the few restraining forces against the goverment and legislature that everybody is fond of whinging about too. |
Deane F (8204) | ||
| 585202 | 2007-09-02 00:58:00 | The Courts apply the law and hand down sentences within the prescribed limits of the law. The only problem is that there seems to be a culture of leniency in sentencing - especially for crimes of violence. How often is the maximum handed down, even when the judge pre sentencing up may say "this is the worst case of this nature that has ever come before me ", and then hands down a sentence that is well short of the maximum. I recall a report of a particularly nasty and violent rape, where the judge made this remark, and then only handed down a seven year sentence (maximum 14). It is almost as if the judiciary take no notice of the wishes of parliament and the people in these issues. "Have a lay person tell us what to do - no way." |
KenESmith (6287) | ||
| 585203 | 2007-09-02 06:25:00 | Just one more for the courts, if that is the product of 900 years then that makes it even more of a joke. As for being concerned, yes and no, maybe just pissed of at it. Maybe a bit of research would do me good. |
rob_on_guitar (4196) | ||
| 585204 | 2007-09-02 10:14:00 | Christ I hate bleeding heart liberals. In a real world we should have a secret police which just take care of small details by shooting people and disposing of their bodies at sea. tedheath |
tedheath (537) | ||
| 585205 | 2007-09-02 12:04:00 | tedheath - liason man for the National Front and their representative on PressF1... | Deane F (8204) | ||
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