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Thread ID: 82760	2007-09-06 23:09:00	NZ Cops	SolMiester (139)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
588788	2007-09-11 21:59:00	The Police in NZ have used several models to police by over the years. When Robert Peel started the policing system in Britain in the 1800s one of the principles was that police are dependent on public approval for their actions to be able to police effectively. The degree of cooperation they get from the public diminishes with any increase in the use of force. The NZ Police have lost the principles of the Peelite system in recent years and have gone toward the rational deterrence model - where they hope that the more offenders they apprehend; the less crime will be committed. This hasn't done them a lot of good and the attitude of the NZ public to the Police has never been lower. It looks like they might be showing the good sense to start building relationships again with the communities they police. While in the Takamore case the Police do have a Court Order to enforce - it is of note that they are not dealing with offenders when it comes to the owners of the land where Takamore is now buried. It would be as grossly inappropriate and insensitive for a team of Police to enter a Maori burial site as it would for them to act the same way on any other similar site. Pakeha (like me) consider cemetaries pretty sacred too. This situation is a classic collision of cultures. I'm not comfortable with what the extended family did - I don't think they should have snatched the body like they did. But I would rather see a negotiated settlement to this affair than a forced one. But in saying that, I do agree to a large extent with the above. Though it seems to me that you may be surprised at the level of public support should the police up the ante with the use of force. From what I hear and conversations I have, the pendulum (sp?) has swung too far to the softly-softly approach and the police need to be less "go along and get along" and become a part of society that should be feared, then respected. Not feared because of their behaviour, but feared because of the consequences of their involvement in matters of law-infringement. But then that comes down to punishments handed out by the Courts, and therein lies a whole new problem.	allblack (6574)
588789	2007-09-12 02:39:00	The use of a firearm against a human being is not something that comes naturally to anybody. By all accounts, even in wartime most ammunition is completely wasted. From memory, in WWII, there was one fatality for every 2,500 rounds (or so) fired. The police don't get military training, either. Hmmm.....don't know how I missed this thread - lots of fun. :D I think your memory is correct Deane. As I recall the American Army did a study during the Second World War and found: 1. Sniping ie. single shots at an enemy soldier, mostly missed. 2. Only the first three bullets fired hit, or were close to the target. As a result sniping became an experts job. Ordinary soldiers are trained to blast away at the enemy upon the basis that heavy fire discouraged the opposition. Secondly automatic rifles were developed with a selector for 3 shot bursts because this was the most effective use of ammunition. Beyond that there was and continues to be argument over 5.56 or 7.62 ammunition (Nato rounds), the rifiling of barrels, the weight of the bullet, and the powder used.	Winston001 (3612)
588790	2007-09-12 02:46:00	Back on topic it seems to me that the police in NZ today are not respected by large segments of the community. Some of this is their own fault - corruption, rape charges etc. Even so our police are among the least corrupt in the world. However the attitude of some officers leaves a lot to be desired. They do get a kick out of having power and are pretty aggressive at times. Having said that, I'd probably be aggressive too if I was spat at, called a pig, and generally abused when I was simply trying to do my job. I agree with Deane that inclusive non-confrontational policing is a better model than kicking ass. That doesn't mean pussyfooting around thugs but taking a pleasant polite line of enquiry in any walk of life is generally a more effective way to get cooperation.	Winston001 (3612)
588791	2007-09-12 02:48:00	I'm all in favour of peaceful non violent protests against most forms of human injustice that currently exist in other countries today, hoever, if your in a "riot" type situation emminating from a protest where the protestors are yelling abuse at the cops from a nose length away, as well as having a core group of provokers, then the cops have my full support to go in and "calm" the situation down.- with fire hoses and water cannons in need be, or a full on charge if your a Dunedin uni student. In the case of Boy/Girl Racers, the cops have my full support to buldoze the little bugger's cars (even if they are driving daddies car) Our cops are way too soft on protestors and riot situations- unless as mentioned above, it is a fully peaceful protest regarding human rights issues in places like Tibet/Nepal or South America.	winmacguy (3367)
588792	2007-09-12 02:55:00	I think its time to break skulls. Boy racers, Gangs, thieves, Crack heads, Break them and dispose of them. Case in point...Ban gangs? Hell no, The people involved are known criminals, what the hell is banning their patch going to achieve?, If they are not already in jail for the life long careers in crime then why the hell does anyone think banning something else they do will make a difference. Too many pussies saying lets give them counseling instead.Lets tolerate their hate. Lets just ban crims, The cops know who they are, Break their skulls, remove em from society if they can't live within it.	Metla (12)
588793	2007-09-12 03:02:00	The police shouldnt be scared of the maoris they just need to be prepared ie armed with a decent calibre bullets preferably bullets like americans police use like dum dums soft nose etc. The police are pussy footing around, scared ****less, cowards. They didnt enforce the court order to stop the maoris stealing the body. They should rectify the situation. By digging him up with properly armed police nearby and take him back to his old lady in CHCH. TEDHEATH	tedheath (537)
588794	2007-09-12 03:17:00	The police shouldnt be scared of the maoris they just need to be prepared ie armed with a decent calibre bullets preferably bullets like americans police use like dum dums soft nose etc. The police are pussy footing around, scared ****less, cowards. They didnt enforce the court order to stop the maoris stealing the body. They should rectify the situation. By digging him up with properly armed police nearby and take him back to his old lady in CHCH. TEDHEATH I don't beleive the police are scared of the Maori's, or any other disfunctional part of our society. What they are scared of, and the same could be said for wannabe male teachers, is the PC brigade that will break their balls if they do something insensitive, like arresting one of them without 16 months of whanau family conferences first. And I don't blame them. Despite that, I agree with your and Metla's sentiments.	allblack (6574)
588795	2007-09-12 03:21:00	Me too. Last time I checked the greater laws governing this country applied to ALL citizens living or born here regardless of creed or skin colour - which would include Maoris.	winmacguy (3367)
588796	2007-09-12 11:19:00	1) Deane, I did apologise, get off your farkin high horse mate! Fair enough SolMiester. My apologies.	Deane F (8204)
588797	2007-09-12 11:22:00	Oh Deane....Deane...Deane...Deane... ............I'll ignore the talking-to-the-cat bit, and the fact that your cat has given up on you too, but I can help (because this is also a "help" forum) with the fact you find this forum too obscure for your learned musings. Shut the door behind you on your way out. Sometimes I'm like you, allblack, and I ignore sarcasm on internet fora. Other times I don't. A little computer magazine internet forum in a wee country like NZ is obscure in anyone's book. And the thing about cats is, well, even if they could talk - they wouldn't...	Deane F (8204)
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