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| Thread ID: 82760 | 2007-09-06 23:09:00 | NZ Cops | SolMiester (139) | PC World Chat |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 588778 | 2007-09-10 01:15:00 | I was pretty appalled when I heard that the Police did not support the execution of the Court Order. However, to be fair, I thought their explanation was reasonable. Being a remote station, having only one hour's notice that the burial was taking place against a Court Order and being entirely without reinforcement facing an almost certainly hostile community it would have been remiss of any commander to order their officers to attend. But now that the Police have time it is a different story. That the Police have decided to negotiate with both parties shows that they are moving toward a different policing model - the community oriented approach. If they are able to assist with a resolution by keeping ties strong and healthy with the local community then the outcome will be better. The rational deterrence policing model - where an adversarial approach is taken to the community - would only be disastrous and stressful for everybody involved in this situation. Deane, are you a reverend of the church, a paster, a Father of the Catholic order? Oh, I know, you are a Social Services bunny, no?, a Maori Cultural Attachee?.... Go on, I give up?....WTF are you? you sound like a bleating American liberal with the new age approach to everything but with all the good words, fail to realize, some people do not care for others feeling or rights, they only care about themselves and will do AS THEY WILL. Such people only respect a firm hand. I think its interesting that for 2000 years adults have bought up children with a firm hand, the children 1st learn fear of adults until such an age that they can discuss/debate/understand spoken word and then the fear becomes respect. For the last 30 years, this has slowly been diluted from society with the do gooders etc, no local paranti in schools, the government doing its best to ban spanking, Britain thinking and following US blindly and the rest of the world if you cant bet them join them.... Check out our society today, its a farkin nightmare, absolutely no respect from children to their elders...Until society steps up and demands control, its only going to get worse Ok, I had my rant now....as you were! |
SolMiester (139) | ||
| 588779 | 2007-09-10 12:28:00 | No, it appears that everything they learn in practice is forgotten as soon as the 1st shot is fired. In that case the police bosses couldn't explain the number of shots fired "they're trained to fire 3 shots and check". It seemed as long as there was cop firing they all assumed that the shots were coming AT them esp Mr 31. ps, they'd all been drinking in a topless bar :D Simple, with the tops on, the beer won't come out. |
R2x1 (4628) | ||
| 588780 | 2007-09-10 12:32:00 | Deane, are you a reverend of the church, a paster, a Father of the Catholic order? Oh, I know, you are a Social Services bunny, no?, a Maori Cultural Attachee?.... Go on, I give up?....WTF are you? you sound like a bleating American liberal with the new age approach to everything but with all the good words, fail to realize, some people do not care for others feeling or rights, they only care about themselves and will do AS THEY WILL. You first SolMeister... WTF are you? Where do you get your ideas? Are your opinions based upon any facts at all? Or do you just have a feeling and then process your opinion through your prejudices? What I am is no business of yours. If you are so troubled by my opinions that you stop playing the ball and start playing the player - well, I can only assume that I have made my points better than you have made yours. Rise to the challenge. Enter a debate without turning it into a conflict. |
Deane F (8204) | ||
| 588781 | 2007-09-10 23:29:00 | Deane, are you a reverend of the church, a paster, a Father of the Catholic order? Oh, I know, you are a Social Services bunny, no?, a Maori Cultural Attachee?.... Go on, I give up?....WTF are you? you sound like a bleating American liberal with the new age approach to everything but with all the good words, fail to realize, some people do not care for others feeling or rights, they only care about themselves and will do AS THEY WILL. Such people only respect a firm hand. I think its interesting that for 2000 years adults have bought up children with a firm hand, the children 1st learn fear of adults until such an age that they can discuss/debate/understand spoken word and then the fear becomes respect. For the last 30 years, this has slowly been diluted from society with the do gooders etc, no local paranti in schools, the government doing its best to ban spanking, Britain thinking and following US blindly and the rest of the world if you cant bet them join them.... Check out our society today, its a farkin nightmare, absolutely no respect from children to their elders...Until society steps up and demands control, its only going to get worse Ok, I had my rant now....as you were! Mate I wouldn't waste your finger tips. But still,feel free. |
Cicero (40) | ||
| 588782 | 2007-09-10 23:35:00 | Sorry Deane, you pressed a button there bud! We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I dont know what your talking about with regards to ball and player, I was asking where your views stem from, mine come from experience and opinion based on over 40 years of life in NZ and watching respect for elders deteriorate beyond belief. It is my view that this replicates through society and this minority group needed to be shown the error of there ways, instead of pandering to it as the NZ police had. |
SolMiester (139) | ||
| 588783 | 2007-09-11 04:07:00 | Sorry Deane, you pressed a button there bud! We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I dont know what your talking about with regards to ball and player, I was asking where your views stem from, mine come from experience and opinion based on over 40 years of life in NZ and watching respect for elders deteriorate beyond belief. It is my view that this replicates through society and this minority group needed to be shown the error of there ways, instead of pandering to it as the NZ police had. Give it up mate....I did a while ago. |
allblack (6574) | ||
| 588784 | 2007-09-11 12:31:00 | Sorry Deane, you pressed a button there bud! We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I dont know what your talking about with regards to ball and player, I was asking where your views stem from, mine come from experience and opinion based on over 40 years of life in NZ and watching respect for elders deteriorate beyond belief. It is my view that this replicates through society and this minority group needed to be shown the error of there ways, instead of pandering to it as the NZ police had. "WTF" is rude when directed at a contributor. We all know what it means. The Police in NZ have used several models to police by over the years. When Robert Peel started the policing system in Britain in the 1800s one of the principles was that police are dependent on public approval for their actions to be able to police effectively. The degree of cooperation they get from the public diminishes with any increase in the use of force. The NZ Police have lost the principles of the Peelite system in recent years and have gone toward the rational deterrence model - where they hope that the more offenders they apprehend; the less crime will be committed. This hasn't done them a lot of good and the attitude of the NZ public to the Police has never been lower. It looks like they might be showing the good sense to start building relationships again with the communities they police. While in the Takamore case the Police do have a Court Order to enforce - it is of note that they are not dealing with offenders when it comes to the owners of the land where Takamore is now buried. It would be as grossly inappropriate and insensitive for a team of Police to enter a Maori burial site as it would for them to act the same way on any other similar site. Pakeha (like me) consider cemetaries pretty sacred too. This situation is a classic collision of cultures. I'm not comfortable with what the extended family did - I don't think they should have snatched the body like they did. But I would rather see a negotiated settlement to this affair than a forced one. |
Deane F (8204) | ||
| 588785 | 2007-09-11 12:33:00 | Give it up mate....I did a while ago. I have really missed your thoughtful remarks too. I was just saying to my cat the other day, "I really miss allblack's thoughtful remarks on an obscure web forum." My cat did not reply. |
Deane F (8204) | ||
| 588786 | 2007-09-11 21:14:00 | "WTF" is rude when directed at a contributor. We all know what it means. The Police in NZ have used several models to police by over the years. When Robert Peel started the policing system in Britain in the 1800s one of the principles was that police are dependent on public approval for their actions to be able to police effectively. The degree of cooperation they get from the public diminishes with any increase in the use of force. The NZ Police have lost the principles of the Peelite system in recent years and have gone toward the rational deterrence model - where they hope that the more offenders they apprehend; the less crime will be committed. This hasn't done them a lot of good and the attitude of the NZ public to the Police has never been lower. It looks like they might be showing the good sense to start building relationships again with the communities they police. While in the Takamore case the Police do have a Court Order to enforce - it is of note that they are not dealing with offenders when it comes to the owners of the land where Takamore is now buried. It would be as grossly inappropriate and insensitive for a team of Police to enter a Maori burial site as it would for them to act the same way on any other similar site. Pakeha (like me) consider cemetaries pretty sacred too. This situation is a classic collision of cultures. I'm not comfortable with what the extended family did - I don't think they should have snatched the body like they did. But I would rather see a negotiated settlement to this affair than a forced one. 1) Deane, I did apologise, get off your farkin high horse mate! 2) This is a forum, everybodu has an opinion, I expressed mine. 3) As stated in my previous post, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I far as I see, the decision on where the body was to be buried, was NEVER given to the extended family, I cannot understand how you believe it is fair to the immediate family to negotiate unless perhaps, you are part of the minority group? |
SolMiester (139) | ||
| 588787 | 2007-09-11 21:51:00 | I have really missed your thoughtful remarks too. I was just saying to my cat the other day, "I really miss allblack's thoughtful remarks on an obscure web forum." My cat did not reply. Oh Deane....Deane...Deane...Deane... ............I'll ignore the talking-to-the-cat bit, and the fact that your cat has given up on you too, but I can help (because this is also a "help" forum) with the fact you find this forum too obscure for your learned musings. Shut the door behind you on your way out. |
allblack (6574) | ||
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