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Thread ID: 83646	2007-10-08 06:38:00	Why is ice build-up bad in the freezer	MeOldMate (12871)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
599352	2007-10-08 14:47:00	Ice is a very good insulator. As such, ice is 32ºF or 0ºC, and keeps the much colder air from circulating and therefor cooling or freezing the foods in the box. This is why Eskimos make their igloos out of snow or ice. It cannot get below 32ºF/0ºF inside them...a real tropical paradise when it's negative 3,000 degrees F or C outside. If ice forms on the evaporator fins, then you are blocking heat exchange. You need to take some foods to about 5 or 6 degrees below the freezing point of water to afford good and prolonged storage. That's why you don't want ice formation in the freezer. Freezing water is very energy-consumptive. Getting from one degree above the freezing point to the actual freezing point requires a lot of energy to get it there. Creating frozen water other than a tray or two of ice cubes is not economical. Once they are frozen however there isn't much maintenance to keep them that way.	SurferJoe46 (51)
599353	2007-10-09 06:13:00	Thanks very much to all the contributors. I feel I have a good grasp on this now. To sum up: 1. Keep empty containers in the freezer to take up the empty space and thereby minimize the amount of warm moist air taken in each time the door is opened. 2. Ice formation creates an undesirable insulation layer that uses extra power to keep frozen, power that ought to be used for the food instead, as well as shielding the food from cooling effect, and restricting circulation. That all makes sense to me. Some 'energy saving' sites suggest keeping the freezer well stocked (without blocking circulation), but it seems likely that this is just to get the benefit that empty boxes would confer. One thing I do wonder, but it's a subtlety: If the space-filling containers were full of water, this would waste power to get them frozen, but once frozen they would surely have a stabilization effect (i.e. keeping the temperature low when the door's opened) as well as bringing the temp of added items down quicker. Whether this compensates for the 'waste' of freezing them would depend I suppose on how long they were in there and how often the door was opened are items were added.	MeOldMate (12871)
599354	2007-10-09 06:20:00	Thanks very much to all the contributors. I feel I have a good grasp on this now. To sum up: 1. Keep empty containers in the freezer to take up the empty space and thereby minimize the amount of warm moist air taken in each time the door is opened. This is surely a waste of time and energy (both you and the fridge). Put plastercine or something similar on the sensor. The idea behind it is this (www.guardian.co.uk).	vinref (6194)
599355	2007-10-09 15:27:00	This is surely a waste of time and energy (both you and the fridge) . Put plastercine or something similar on the sensor . The idea behind it is this ( . guardian . co . uk/environment/2007/mar/17/climatechange . climatechangeenvironment" target="_blank">www . guardian . co . uk) . . . . didn't read the link . . but I have seen this idea used in the form of having the sensor in a semi-sealed area so it doesn't respond to rapidly changing temps . Not especially good . . although it looks that way on paper . Eventually, you have a lot of peaks and valleys in the true temp that the sensor will not see rapidly enough to keep the food at a required or decent temp . Any time you have to make up "cold" as it were, you are using energy to return it to that preset value . If it takes longer to get back to the cold temp you need even though the running cycles will be fewer, the run times will consume more electricity trying to get back when you gag the sensor . Energy in = energy out, minus losses . . . . or . . . . To get cold requires electricity and the losses are the heat in the compressor, energy conversion from freon compression and flow/motion to produce heat absorption . . . etc . . . etc . . . . Ever feel the power cord and notice a little heat when the unit runs hard and long? If it's hot, you're paying for that at the electric meter too . Heating or cooling cost the most energy consumption in a home . I always like the refrigerators that had semi-individual compartments inside the main door . That way you only swamped the section where you needed to enter with heat and pretty much left the other areas alone . The freezer has to be a separate door and compartment to keep things stable in it too . Some walk-in commercial refrigerators use those hanging clear vinyl strips that create a barrier once inside the box . If you need something in one area, you don't carry too much heat into the other areas .	SurferJoe46 (51)
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