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Thread ID: 83829	2007-10-15 00:53:00	anti-terror law	robsonde (120)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
601536	2007-10-16 01:45:00	yes, the people involved on both sides are long dead, bury the matter and move on. If it doesn't concern you (and it obviously doesn't because you see no reason why others should care about something that you do not care about) why do you have an opinion either way? You obviously have no historical grievance against the Crown. But the parties that have an interest in this dispute - the Crown and various Iwi, Hapu and Whanau - obviously think the matter is not dead at all. The parties to the dispute also seem to think that there can be no moving on without sorting it out - and so they're sorting it out.	Deane F (8204)
601537	2007-10-16 01:53:00	yes, the people involved on both sides are long dead, bury the matter and move on. For god sake Met,go for the throat.	Cicero (40)
601538	2007-10-16 03:57:00	If it doesn't concern you (and it obviously doesn't because you see no reason why others should care about something that you do not care about) why do you have an opinion either way? You obviously have no historical grievance against the Crown. But the parties that have an interest in this dispute - the Crown and various Iwi, Hapu and Whanau - obviously think the matter is not dead at all. The parties to the dispute also seem to think that there can be no moving on without sorting it out - and so they're sorting it out. Mate, I'm a new Zealander, It does concern me. And all the rest of New Zealand.	Metla (12)
601539	2007-10-16 05:17:00	Mate, I'm a new Zealander, It does concern me. And all the rest of New Zealand. And the "rest of New Zealand" includes the Iwi, Hapu and Whanau that may hold grievances against the Crown, presumably?	Deane F (8204)
601540	2007-10-16 05:23:00	Im pretty much done on the subject, The term all New Zealanders doesn't need to be explained. I don't see my country as seperated by the experiences of a small group of long dead people, And I think its weak for a group of people of any race to make the experiences of those long dead people such a big issue that it makes them hold grudges about things they personally were never involved it. Its a cycle, Its not able to be fixed with comfort money ,Break it, Move forward.	Metla (12)
601541	2007-10-16 05:35:00	And the "rest of New Zealand" includes the Iwi, Hapu and Whanau that may hold grievances against the Crown, presumably? Don't know about the other crowd you mention,but Maoris don't seem to want to get over it whilst the industry is so lucrative. For some.	Cicero (40)
601542	2007-10-16 05:36:00	Don't know about the other crowd you mention,but Maoris don't seem to want to get over it whilst the industry is so lucrative. For some. Exactly.	Metla (12)
601543	2007-10-16 06:10:00	zqwerty, I read your 14 symptoms of fascism- few if any apply here in NZ (and any possible ones aren't even close to extent found in fascist states), and since your main critique of the police et al appears to be the dawn raid thing, consider this- the police had evidence accumulated over a year that various groups in NZ had united to teach their members various terror tactics ranging from fraud (fund raising) to weapons training and bomb making. Disturbing these people, deranged as they may be, when is the best time to disturb them? Bearing in mind the full range of their reactions, from going quietly (unlikely) to 'I'll take you pigs with me' [boom]. Just to make it easy for you, how about when they are asleep? Secondly, no idea how this will pan out when it hits court (Iraq WMD anyone?), but that same evidence suggested that these various groups while having different agendas, were going to mount their attacks at the same time in order to stretch law enforcement resources to/beyond their limits to cope. Sound like Al Queda anyone? If anyone thinks that these dawn raids are bad, imagine what it would have been like if these groups had succeeded in their agendas- nationwide panic and paranoia, not to mention the damage to our reputation globally as a place safe from terrorism. It is interesting to note that the term 'dawn raids' is being bandied about now when the last time it (the term that is) was applied to immigration raids back in the 70's with all the bad PR that followed (I know the phrase but not what happened, so let's not go there). Fact is, raids at dawn are often used by the NZ Police against gangs, drug dealers, wanted felons and various others involved in criminal activity- why not terrorists? Finally, you may think that napalm is only any good when thrown into a tank cupola, but firstly it is not just a 'bottle filled with petrol'- it is jellified petroleum, and pretty nasty stuff, especially when thrown into a house or car, or even an office for that matter. Either way, someone covered in napalm or petrol aren't going to care what it is, as they'll be too busy burning to death, and screaming. I for one would be interested in hearing their plausible reasons for having one lying around...	Sick Puppy (6959)
601544	2007-10-16 06:11:00	Try here:- home.nzcity.co.nz When will we get the news media to be responsible for what they print or say? Some of the media obviously do not need an exercise regime as they get plenty by jumping to conclusions. As for the Maori and past grievances, there can be be no doubt in my mind that the issues should have been solved some time back. Probably before I was born. I happen to be a fifth generation New Zealander. For Dean F And the "rest of New Zealand" includes the Iwi, Hapu and Whanau that may hold grievances against the Crown, presumably? OK. Dean F. Should I go to Ireland and reclaim a potato farm at some stage? The "rest of New Zealand" should probably include quite a few races. So should all this be passed on from generation to generation? Generally I think not. What would some of our immigrants think about the Treaty do you think? As I understand it there were several versions of this as well. For Metla I agree that you should not live in the past but learn by history. Otherwise you may be doomed to repeat mistakes.	Sweep (90)
601545	2007-10-16 07:54:00	Without entering the debate, Oliver Cromwell is still hated in Ireland today for what the English did under his 11 year reign. That hasn't been forgotten or forgiven. The Scots still shudder about Edward Longshanks (Edward I) treatment of them and subsequent English subjugation. The Balkans is a festering sore of historic grievances where Vlad the Impaler is remembered from the 15th century. This erupted into real life and blood in 1995. So I'm all for redressing historic wrongs and often it is enough to say "Sorry" - something the Australian government has been extraordinarily coy about doing. Rant over.	Winston001 (3612)
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