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Thread ID: 85088	2007-11-29 09:40:00	Controversial poll..	russell108 (7499)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
616367	2007-11-29 09:40:00	So was 9/11 an inside job ? I always thought nah until i watched that zeitgiest movie, now i think it looks very dodgy.. http://zeitgeistmovie.com/	russell108 (7499)
616368	2007-11-29 09:44:00	Wanna buy a harbour bridge?	R2x1 (4628)
616369	2007-11-29 09:50:00	Wanna buy a harbour bridge? Trying to sell me something ?	russell108 (7499)
616370	2007-11-29 09:52:00	Yer our PM. Used and useless.	Speedy Gonzales (78)
616371	2007-11-29 10:08:00	Yer our PM . Used and useless . PM ? eh ?	russell108 (7499)
616372	2007-11-29 10:49:00	russell108, I have a video for sale showing that the Americans never went to the moon, they staged the whole thing on Earth and filmed it. The moon landing was a hoax! Price reductions if you buy in quantity.	zqwerty (97)
616373	2007-11-29 12:49:00	zqwerty have you watched the movie then ? How do you explain WTC building 7 collapsing when it wasnt even hit by a plane ? I suppose it was so shocked that the other two went down it decided to throw the towel in and do the same did it ? I suggest you grow up, pull your head out of your ass and at least look at the evidence with an open mind.	russell108 (7499)
616374	2007-11-29 15:46:00	Hey Russell. I too have something to sell that you may be interested in. It's a large reddish planet. Completely untouched by human hands. Very low deposit, generous payment options and free delivery. If you buy it you and all your friends can go and make happy happy as much as you want without the constraints of any form of logic or reason.	Greg (193)
616375	2007-11-29 17:06:00	yup . . . and it's happened before too . I cite Pearl Harbor . 1) the Japanese radio code had been broken for months . US intelligence knew where the Emperor was at all times and the whereabouts of the Japanese fleets and their "secret" orders were being read like the LA Times . 2) Admiral Halsey had all the really useful ships (carriers, fast destroyers, submarines, modern escorts and newer models of light cruisers) were all at sea, leaving some old rust buckets as targets . Heavy cruisers and Dreadnoughts (battle wagons) were not the strategic weapon that would be used in the Pacific war, and Halsey needed to protect the faster and lighter Navy for what he foresaw as necessary . Much of the Pacific war was not going to be in deep waters, and the shallow waters around the Pacific Islands would not be a good place for such deep-drought ships . 3) Ford Island and Wheeler Airbase naval aircraft were all parked nose-in, in circles making it impossible to sortie quickly . This was ordered the day before the attack . This was definitely an out-of-the-ordinary order for any Navy airfield; this order had NEVER been issued before or after . There was an official "stand-down" order for the day; the Uniform of the Day orders were for Tropical Whites, a "liberty" uniform and most of the personnel were anticipating a day of liberty in town . This removed the readiness factor and condition "Yankee" was set . Wheeler Army Airfield, in central Oahu, was Hawaii's main fighter base . It was heavily attacked . Of some 140 planes on the ground there, mainly P-40 and P-36 pursuits, nearly two-thirds were destroyed or put out of action . A similar proportion of the B-17, B-18 and A-20 bombers at Hickam Army Airfield, adjacent to the Pearl Harbor Navy Yard, was also wrecked or damaged enough to keep them grounded . Many men were killed at Hickam when the Japanese bombed their barracks . Smaller Bellows Field in eastern Oahu was also hit, destroying several P-40s, including two whose pilots courageously attempted to take off in the teeth of the enemy onslaught . U . S . Navy and Marine Corps air stations on Pearl Harbor's Ford Island, at Ewa to the west of Pearl and at Kanoehe Bay near Bellows Field, also received concentrated attention from the raiders . Ewa's aircraft complement, mainly carrier-type bombers and fighters, was reduced from nearly fifty operational planes to less than twenty . Ford Island and Kanoehe, home to several squadrons of long-range PBY patrol seaplanes, were massively attacked, with Ford Island losing about half its planes and Kaneohe all but a few . Notice that the carrier-based aircraft were missing from this list . Although on Ewa there were a great number on the ground, they were all mostly "red-tagged" and needed extensive repairs to return them to air-worthiness and had been taken off the aircraft carriers just days before the attack . The carriers however, had full compliments of aircraft . 4) President Franklin D . Roosevelt needed a powerful rallying call for the deeply divided US citizenry . The US was mostly practicing isolationism and didn't want a war in the Pacific . . which would create a two-fronted war . The population didn't even want to be in Europe . . . how could FDR get people involved more than a "surprise attack" on US bases? There are too many strange coincidences here to be dismissed lightly .	SurferJoe46 (51)
616376	2007-11-29 17:39:00	If you got sucked in by that that zeitgiest movie, you are like sheep . Mindless sheep! Following conspiracy theories because it feels good . Zeitgiest and Loose Change are basically the same movies . Anyone here on PF1 who tries to promote Norton's Security as being worthwhile gets shot down with facts and detailed analysis, and the same is true for saying Vista is tops, or any of many technical topics . But OMG, get on the topic of 9/11 or the lunar landings, and rationality flies out the window, walking like sheep without brains, ignoring the facts . OK folks, here we go . . . Anyone who watched Zeitgiest / Loose Change MUST see this debate . . youtube . com/watch?v=stVmEmJ666M" target="_blank">uk . youtube . com That is part 1 . To see all parts of the debate, either look on the page to find the others, or just go here: . youtube . com/results?search_query=loose+change+mechanics&search=Search" target="_blank">uk . youtube . com Matt Taibbi of Rolling Stone has written that the 9/11 truth movement: "gives supporters of Bush an excuse to dismiss critics of this administration . I have no doubt that every time one of those Loose Change dic****s opens his mouth, a Republican somewhere picks up five votes . "[ 38] Critics also point out the documentary quote mines sources, uses unreliable or out of date sources and cherry picks interview footage . It quotes Danielle O'Brien commenting on how air traffic controllers thought Flight 77 was a military plane based on its maneuverability; but it leaves out the end of the statement, " . . . you don't fly a 757 in that manner . It's unsafe . "[39] Loose Change quotes the coroner, Wally Miller, as seeing no bodies or blood the day of Flight 93's crash; over the next several weeks Miller goes on to identify 12 passengers "using mostly dental records . "[40] There is an interview of chief flight instructor Marcel Bernard focusing on the weaknesses of Hani Hanjour's flying skills when he took lessons at Freeway Airport; it fails to clarify Bernard's expert opinion on Hanjour's ability to hit the Pentagon . "There's no doubt in my mind that once that [hijacked jet] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it . "[41] Three different point-by-point critiques were prepared by 911research . wtc7 . net, Internet Detectives and Mark Roberts . Two commentators run a blog called Screw Loose Change . Mark Iradian prepared an edited version of Loose Change under the SLC moniker, subtitled with criticisms drawing on work by Roberts, Screw Loose Change (which also gives credit to the video), and his own efforts . Mark Roberts also compiled a lengthy selection of interview quotes in which the Loose Change creators elaborate on the claims made in the film . [25] Many of the critiques argue that Loose Change uses unreliable sources, oversimplified arguments and selective facts to claim that there are serious problems with official accounts of the events of September 11 . Loose Change suggests a missile hit the Pentagon yet does not acknowledge the dozens of eye witnesses at the scene who reported seeing a large commercial jet . [26] The lack of readily visible airplane debris and bodies in the Pentagon and Pennsylvania crashes is focused on by Loose Change and it uses other airline disasters as evidence there should be larger debris found . However, according to 911 Review . com, those crashes were accidents where pilots were trying to save their aircraft over terrain; rather than deliberately crashing them into the ground or buildings . A fighter jet crashing into a concrete barrier[27] and other jetliner crashes[28] provide precedents for comparison . Substantial amounts of debris and body parts were recovered from both crash sites as the recovery operations began . [29][30] While some of the calls from Flight 93 were made with Airfones, the documentary asserts that other calls made with cell phones could not have happened from cruising altitudes; and that new cell phone systems being tested in airplanes support this point . In the recent book Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Facts by Popular Mechanics editors (ISBN 1-58816-635-X), the authors reply that Flight 93's altitude was lower and it was frequently over rural areas with powerful cell towers . [ 31] Commercial airlines are testing new cell phone systems as it is a cost effective replacement to the unpopular Airfone being phased out . Reception is also improved (cell calls were dropped on Flight 93), works over the ocean, decreases avionics interference and flight crews can disable the phones . [32][33] Loose Change compares the Collapse of the World Trade Center to other notable high rise fires, but the National Institute of Standards and Technology clarifies there are differences in building design and size, structural damage and compromised fireproofing . [34] Popular Mechanics points out in many conspiracy theories there is no exploration on the effect of fire on unprotected structural steel, which "loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F . "[35] Kevin Ryan the "expert" source from Underwriters Laboratories is actually a non-expert from a subsidiary for water testing,[11] Underwriters Laboratories does not certify structural steel,[34][11] and ASTM E119 certification involves intact fireproofing as conducted by Underwriters Laboratories for the NIST in 2004 . [36] The NIST could find no record of any previous certification tests ever being conducted on the novel WTC floor system . [36] The NIST demonstrated the fireproofing was not intact by firing shotguns on fireproofed steel; conspiracy advocates find this unconvincing . [37] The National Institute of Standards and Technology, a government agency has released a point-by-point rebuttal of many common alternative theories of the WTC collapse, including theories which Loose Change used . On September 11, 2006, Democracy Now! conducted an exclusive discussion with Loose Change's creators and Popular Mechanics editors, where they debate various aspects of the documentary . [11] There are many many more facts, but hey, don't bother to study them, just go on like sheep and believe what you want to believe . :stare:	Morpheus1 (186)
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