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Thread ID: 85600	2007-12-15 20:50:00	Children's Hospital turns down funds.	B.M. (505)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
621551	2007-12-16 18:13:00	You make it sound like Starship Hospital is some poor beggar of an organisation who must gratefully take any money offered to them by anybody. But ends do not justify means. The simplest understanding can comprehend that. Well that’s just the point Deane, to all intention purposes the hospital could very well be described as beggars because they are grossly under funded and rely heavily on donations. In my book the ends should justify the means and so long as there is nothing illegal about accepting the money then they should have. Finally, for all of you walking the Moral High Ground, do you realise that half the money in your pocket could have been, at some stage of its circulation, the profits of crime. :stare: You should give it all to me just in case. :D	B.M. (505)
621552	2007-12-16 18:52:00	It's much too late to give the money back. Our friend Winston has made his point. Talk about political gain!!! He won't care what they do with the money now (well, not in public). Surely they realised that once Winston said he was giving them the money it was a fait accompli? Accept the money or refuse it, Winston does not care - he's made tons of political gain. If Starship was not happy about his offer then they should have accepted it quietly. The more noise they made the more political gain for Winston. But I would have thought that the interests of the children was more important than any political gain anyone may or may not have obtained. Take the money, shut up, and do what you are good at: looking after the children.	Roscoe (6288)
621553	2007-12-16 19:20:00	It's much too late to give the money back. Our friend Winston has made his point. Talk about political gain!!! He won't care what they do with the money now (well, not in public). Surely they realised that once Winston said he was giving them the money it was a fait accompli? Accept the money or refuse it, Winston does not care - he's made tons of political gain. If Starship was not happy about his offer then they should have accepted it quietly. The more noise they made the more political gain for Winston. But I would have thought that the interests of the children was more important than any political gain anyone may or may not have obtained. Take the money, shut up, and do what you are good at: looking after the children. You have absolutely nailed it Roscoe. My sentiments entirely.	B.M. (505)
621554	2007-12-16 19:39:00	Metla is right; this thread ended at post #19 - even if BM is too entrenched in his narrow minded opinion (as usual) to realise it Ahhh, thank heavens you’ve turned up Motorcyclist . I thought you may be lying on the side of the road somewhere . Now, let me see . Yes, a quick count reveals all the Left Wing, Hand Wringing Greenies are now present . :thumbs: However, you get 100 lines for being late . I must broaden my vision . I mu…………………… . I ……………………… . Don't let it happen again! :D :D	B.M. (505)
621555	2007-12-16 23:17:00	You have absolutely nailed it Roscoe . My sentiments entirely . Sentiment is not illegal and I have feelings for any person who finds themselves or family with a health problem . “The donation came after Auditor-General Kevin Brady found NZ First had spent $158,000 unlawfully in the 2005 election - out of $1 . 17 million unlawful spending by all parties . Politicians have since passed a law that validated their actions, but most parties have paid the money back . ” The quote from the New Zealand Herald above that I have issues with . 1 . Retrospective legislation is (in my view) wrong . 2 . All people should obey the law as it stands today . Most people will break the law every day in one way or another including me . 3 . Parliament makes laws with the help of lawyers and the various Courts (with the help of lawyers) will interpret the law . Do not forget civil servants here and they are not elected they just give advice to the Government . 4 . Natural JUSTICE would tend to indicate that the people who make laws should obey the said law as it happens to be on the day the alleged act occured . 5 . Say (for example) a speed camera was sitting on a road with an indicated limit of 100kmh . It was there for two weeks . I am doing 95kmh maximum for the two weeks . Legislation (retrospective) lowers the speed limit on that road to 50kph . Then I would assume I could get a number of infringement notices from the relevant authority . 6 . Other political parties whom have paid have done this to the relevant authority . 7 . In my view the Starship Hospital is a very worthy cause . They are government funded and probably underfunded like other Hospitals or DHBs etc . If I had received the money from NZFirst then I would have rejected this as well . If I had heaps of money I could then donate to causes I have an interest in . 8 . The people whom create the law should not be above the law . 9 . Get rid of MMP . While MMP seemed like a good idea as various people voted for that system the government (of the day) has to bed down with other partys in order to form a government . New Zealand as a whole seems to be going downhill as the combined partys make a compromise . In my opinion compromise is good for some people but not all people . Get rid of Party Politics as well . The Politicians should reflect the view of the Electorate they are elected to . There should not be a party list or list MPs 10 . I was about to say, “My 2 cents worth” but realized it has to be 10 cents at least unless I use a card . Has anyone noticed that one? What about the people pay due taxes based on income which is fine . Then I say to the IRD, “I want x% to go to roads . y% to go to health and zero% for junkets?	Sweep (90)
621556	2007-12-17 00:02:00	I can’t quite get to grips with your post Sweep, but your concern seems to be rorting of the electoral funds and the retrospective passing of a law to make it all above board . If that’s your beef, then I agree it was outrageous . How they managed to embezzle $1 . 7m between them in the first place eludes me . Remember though that Peters and his merry men got less than 10% of the cut . The Pots that are calling the Kettle black got 90% . :eek: The political posturing over the matter is hypocritical at best . However, my beef is not about the political gymnastics of a few politicians . It’s about an organisation like the Starship Hospital getting involved in politics at the expense of sick children and their care givers . If the board of the Starship Foundation are political appointments and thought they saw an opportunity to embarrass Peters, then they are very bad tacticians indeed . :lol: Ahh, your post has been fixed Sweep .	B.M. (505)
621557	2007-12-17 00:48:00	Sigh, it's all shambles. I'm glad I don't vote. Tell me again how Winston and his ego got into parliament in the first place. B.M., I agree with you in that starship is a worth cause for a stray $158,000, but the problem is that it wasn't Winston's to give in the first place. It was our money, the taxpayers. Winston was allowed to spend an amount of money, but he spent more. I have no beef if he returns the money to who he stole it from in the first place (us), but instead he tries to offload it to starship, and get some publicity at the same time. An example; say I rob a gas station of $750, am caught later, and instead of giving it back and doing some time, I try to give it to charity and say, "there's your money, it went to a good cause, too bad it was yours in the first place because it went to a good cause." Starship is a good cause, but they did the right thing by not accepting it, and now Winston is annoyed that he can't break the law without someone getting upset (as we rightly should, he broke the law, and as an MP, he should be punished more so). My opinion...	ubergeek85 (131)
621558	2007-12-17 01:08:00	The guv never asks what they will spend tax money on though. They just do it. Day after day. Sure they pretty it up with paperwork, but they still do it. Starship should have kept it and then said they disagreed with the politics behind it but they needed the money. I guess they dont need it badly enough. I will find another charity to support too.	rob_on_guitar (4196)
621559	2007-12-17 01:28:00	I can’t quite get to grips with your post Sweep, but your concern seems to be rorting of the electoral funds and the retrospective passing of a law to make it all above board. If that’s your beef, then I agree it was outrageous. How they managed to embezzle $1.7m between them in the first place eludes me. Remember though that Peters and his merry men got less than 10% of the cut. The Pots that are calling the Kettle black got 90%. :eek: The political posturing over the matter is hypocritical at best. However, my beef is not about the political gymnastics of a few politicians. It’s about an organisation like the Starship Hospital getting involved in politics at the expense of sick children and their care givers. If the board of the Starship Foundation are political appointments and thought they saw an opportunity to embarrass Peters, then they are very bad tacticians indeed. :lol: Ahh, your post has been fixed Sweep. A few questions for you:- Are you privy to information that the Public (Taxpayers) are not? Was the Starship Hospital Board aware of the intentions of NZFirst betore the "payment"? Is the Starship Hospital entitled to the $158,000? Are you certain that the Board Starship Hospital got involved in Politics. Did they communicate with NZFirst in any way? Prove it. Why did NZFirst not pay the money to State Services? If you supplied goods or services I would pay YOU. You would then pass on to the Govt GST tax and you would pay income tax as well. In the event you were a computer tech and came around to fix my computer I would expect an invoice. By your logic I can pay Starship. Would you rather I pay Starship instead of you?	Sweep (90)
621560	2007-12-17 02:00:00	The point is Peters hasn’t broken the law and the party has the legal right to donate the money to whoever they like. Some Charity is going to be the benefactor and I’m annoyed it isn’t Starship. :mad:	B.M. (505)
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