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Thread ID: 86028	2007-12-31 20:13:00	We Got Troubles Too...	SurferJoe46 (51)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
626127	2007-12-31 20:13:00	I just know that most everyone . . even some in NZ . . . think the land of milk and honey is here in the US . . with exceptions of course . . . . But, what you can read here is a very visual trend to the living conditions that are popping up all over the country while the recession has very likely turned into a full-blown depression . This article is one that's not so bleeding-hearted, but it is indicative of the troubles in La La Land that might get swept under the run in the tourists' guides from the US Chamber of Commerce . Typically, the LA Times would use yellow paper if it could get away with it . . it usually has some soppy liberal hogwash that makes the skin crawl . This is different . . this is true and I can honestly say that I have seen it personally . This is the best of the downtrodden, and there are many stories of people "in the system" who move every 14 days to stay ahead of the law, traveling between county, regional and local parks and campgrounds living sometimes under a picnic table with a plastic sheet over it and whole families living on layers of newspapers and cardboard to keep the cold ground from their bones . My first wife and I taught grammar and reading to the homeless kids in these parks for a few years . . I held a full-time job and she stayed in the park with a classroom and lots of books, teaching them a little . . sometimes enough to just sign their names . I can tell more of that story at a future time . . but this is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg . . latimes . com/news/local/la-me-rvhomeless31dec31,0,376091 . story?page=1&coll=la-home-center" target="_blank">www . latimes . com	SurferJoe46 (51)
626128	2007-12-31 21:24:00	Hi SurferJoe I read that story, its pretty sad. We have the same sort of thing here as you say. There seems to be a world wide trend to very rich people and very poor people. What is the answer ? Is there an answer ? If it is because they get drugged up and turn into alcholics what can or should be done ? Regards Digby	Digby (677)
626129	2008-01-01 00:36:00	Don't want to make this too long . . I am known for my brevity in my posts . . . but I'll try to expand a little . . . so outta character for me . My wife and I took the kids for a tent camping trip to Caspers Regional Park one week, and we saw some incredible sights . There were moms with newborn babies living under picnic tables . Seems they were from Texas, Arkansas, West Virginia . . . take your pick of any of the Bible Belt states . . and once the dad found work, he'd abandon the rest of the family leaving them to eek things out for themselves . There were some charities that brought them food . . day-old bread and outdated produce and meat . . even some firewood or charcoal if they had a BBQ to use . The babies got formula and pablum and diapers and such . It tore our hearts to see the little urchin kids sucking their thumbs and looking at us for food and shelter . Medical students would drop by and give some "well-baby" clinics and they also got the local hospitals to offer immunization clinics too . We went home and as a family we discussed what we could do for them . . . it hurt a lot to see their pitiful condition . We knew we had to continue our spiritual education, work for a living and school all those kids . . . it would be hard to accomplish . . . but we decided to try it anyway . We missed a few meetings, but we had a lot of support too . I believe that " . . . if you give a man a fish . . . ", and the rest of that old saw . . . so we decided to make a real difference for the kids . We taught them to read and write . The schools would NOT matriculate them as they had no real address and the parks made them move every 14 days to keep them off the tax-roles . So . . . we registered as a portable school thru a facility called "The Little Red School House" . . . me as the principal and my wife as the administrator . . and we taught them to read and add and subtract and write and enjoy some education at least . Long story short . . . they followed us when we too had to move every 14 days . . . they would ask us which park we were going to and meet us there . The park rangers would know we were coming to their park when they saw all the homeless people arriving . . sometimes a few hours before we even left the last park . We had quite an entourage of parents, children and police oficials and park administrators from our teaching . . but I had to continue holding a daytime job, working for our own living . After about 2 years of this . . . me holding a full time job and buying books and paper and pencils and such, the local school districts got wind of what we were doing and somehow got a charter to build portable classrooms in newly-donated HUGE motor homes with computers, hot lunches and real desks to sit at . My wife and I retired . When she passed away, there were parks personnel from Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino and Los Angeles counties in uniform at her memorial . They numbered over 100 people and really packed the Kingdom Hall in San Jacinto, where the memorial was held . A live oak tree . . very old and still having a long time to live was posted with a brass plaque with her name and a small memorial note as the pioneer of the newly established Parks Educational System . It's still there . . . I see it whenever I go to Orange County .	SurferJoe46 (51)
626130	2008-01-01 00:42:00	No offence SurferJoe, but most here do not see the US as the land of milk and honey . The big difference between NZ and the US, is we are a "true" democracy and being smaller we have the ability to monitor whats going on in NZ far more easily, people here seem to take notice more . The American media seems almost "paid off" where our media will bag our government if they put one toe over the line . The US government gets away with unbelievable Human rights breeches, lying to its own people and your media barely reports it, little own make a big deal . Poverty has been ramped in the US for decades, the rich have been getting richer why the poor get more poor . largely this has been happening in most western countries, Capitalism and basic Human greed actually don't mix well . Interesting story but not surprising .	Battleneter2 (9361)
626131	2008-01-01 00:45:00	Yeah...the media here is controlled by Hollywood. If it's good for them, they get away with it. If it's good for the peons, it becomes illegal. Someone (a politician running for president, I think) said last night that if the US is such a bad place, why are people breaking IN to it? Not necessarily my opinion, but then again, I live here by some cruel happenstance.	SurferJoe46 (51)
626132	2008-01-01 06:15:00	From my personal point of View, the US has done many great things and the people themselves are not much different from here. Keep in mind the US has a number of third world countries on your doorstep, I don't think the average European, Aussie or Kiwi wants to live in the US anymore than you want to live here. Did you know countries like NZ and Australia have a far greater percentage of the population born outside the country than the US?	Battleneter2 (9361)
626133	2008-01-01 06:37:00	From my personal point of View, the US has done many great things and the people themselves are not much different from here . Keep in mind the US has a number of third world countries on your doorstep, I don't think the average European, Aussie or Kiwi wants to live in the US anymore than you want to live here . Did you know countries like NZ and Australia have a far greater percentage of the population born outside the country than the US?And a far greater percentage of Kiwis and Aussies actually leave their own country to travel the world (even before retirement age) than the US of A . Mind you, it's pretty difficult to travel for more than a few hours in NZ without your route being interrupted by a large expanse of water . . . . ;) - so if you want to see anything, you have no choice .	johcar (6283)
626134	2008-01-01 06:57:00	The amazing thing is that the people, away from cities, are pretty similar. In the cites, they vary a bit more, but by and large the similarities are strong wherever you go: people generally are pretty good. Either that, or I have been lucky in my travels. Alas, current trends in NZ are apparently heading more toward separatism. It's a shame, I liked it better when we were more egalitarian.	R2x1 (4628)
626135	2008-01-02 04:21:00	And a far greater percentage of Kiwis and Aussies actually leave their own country to travel the world (even before retirement age) than the US of A . Mind you, it's pretty difficult to travel for more than a few hours in NZ without your route being interrupted by a large expanse of water . . . . ;) - so if you want to see anything, you have no choice . Never quite thought of it that way . I used to live on a small island . . . Key West, Florida . . but that was a long time ago . I guess that since I was a Navy Brat and we moved every month or so . . it became natural for me to want to meet and see everything I could in whatever time I had at a particular place and time . Same must be so in NZ . . people is people, and although SOME would like to render us as just chimpanzees with car keys, I find the interaction of people as the most invigorating to me and on a much higher level than simian grunts and groans . I guess that everybody here recognizes that I go door-to-door in my faith and I get to meet a lot of very nice people who are really starved for human interplay that does not detract from their earnings, possessions or place on the food chain . I see a sparkle in the eye of some . . . dull death and sorrow in others . . but, YES . . people are pretty much the same everywhere . Now on to the "travel" and new vistas part . . . The US is a pretty big place and there's such a lot for one to need two or three lifetimes to spy out and interact with it all . . . so I guess the need to travel is suppressed here in the US by the vast differences in the terrain and the dialects and the customs of such far away places as Fargo, North Dakota or Beverly Hills, California or Walla-Walla Washington . There are others . . but this diversity here could keep an anthropologist busy for a few lifetimes . All in all, I'd like to see NZ in the pristine condition in which it currently exists . Youse guys are not only interesting, but I find the intelligence there to be above par for humans generally . You, most definitely are NOT chimpanzees with car keys . (OK . . . there MAY be an exception or two . . but I'm not sure I've met them/you yet . ) Just a 'fer instance . . . . I stood at a block wall in Tijuana once a long time ago . . and envisioned the hands that made the bricks, mixed the mortar, placed the bricks and trimmed the squeezed-out extra material . . . over and over again . . and did it straight and without much automation, if any at all . It amazed me that even if that person was now dead and buried, his work and artistry still existed and was usable to people who never got to thinking about just how and by whom that wall existed . Sad to think that a lifetime of trials, errors and skills, when finally learned and had become an artistic expression, was by now dead and a-mouldering in some grave . Ah well . . I'll let beetle take it from here . Sorry for becoming all Maudlin on ya .	SurferJoe46 (51)
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