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Thread ID: 87766	2008-03-03 07:49:00	New tyres, front or back?	lakewoodlady (103)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
645891	2008-03-05 00:18:00	I highly doubt many of you have had a blowout but are yet experts on the matter... *hides* lol When I learned to drive, blowouts were a regular occurance. With new tyres almost unattainable and WOF's an even bigger joke than they are today cars were regularly driven untill the tube was showing.. I even used to put Cardboard inside the tyre to get a few more miles. Every motorist carried repair equipment with them and punctures were fixed on the side of the road. And air pressure was maintained with the help of a hand pump. And I vividly recall a front tyre blowing at 80 mph. And then a rear one going while in an uncontrolled spin. And while all this was going on, all I could think of was "Where can I get a deposit on another car?"	JJJJJ (528)
645892	2008-03-05 00:28:00	I was only rarking them up. Personally I just get all 4 at once.	rob_on_guitar (4196)
645893	2008-03-05 00:55:00	Directional control is ten times more important than anything the rear may do, Another local hero going it alone against the advice of the International Tyre Industry. The original question covered the case of replacing only 1 pair of tyres. I'm sure many people would like 4 new but find staggered replacement easier. Michelin www.michelin.com.au "Why fit new or the least worn tyres to the rear? Skid Whether your vehicle is front-wheel drive or rear-wheel drive, we recommend that new tyres be fitted to the rear axle. This will ensure that vehicle stability is maintained in extreme conditions of braking and cornering, especially on wet or slippery roads. Numerous tests have shown that it is generally easier to control the front axle than the rear axle. If the front tyres skid, the driver momentarily loses control of his steering. The action that should be taken to regain control is to lift the foot from the accelerator and to turn the steering wheel into the direction of the skid. This manoeuvre will help vehicle control to be regained. Skid On the other hand, should control be lost on the rear axle, the situation is much more difficult to control, because this leads to oversteer. In order to regain control of the vehicle, the driver should turn the steering away from the direction of the bend. An experienced driver would also find that gentle deceleration would also help gain control. This is why Michelin recommends that you limit the risk of this happening by fitting new or the least worn tyres to the rear. This will enable: * improved grip when cornering * vehicle stability when braking * additional vehicle safety"	PaulD (232)
645894	2008-03-05 01:17:00	Agree with that PaulD Keep the back on track with the best tyres and you will have less risk of a directional control problem. As anyone knows who has lost control on a corner it is always the back end that lets go first. Unless of course you are stupid enough to have bald tyres on the front. But bald tyres are not what is being discussed here, it is assumed all tyres have adequate tread and the place to put new or the best tyres is on the back as has been pointed out by the experts for the reasons explained.	Safari (3993)
645895	2008-03-05 01:29:00	Thanks PaulD and Safari . It makes sense doesn't it . Perhaps I can close this thread with another couple of pieces of advice . . . . . 1 . If your valve caps are plastic, throw them away and beg or buy some steel ones . Plastic caps are no more than a dust cap while steel ones actually contain an air-seal . 2 . Be best friends with your tyres and keep the inflation pressures checked . You will be rewarded, and have confidence that you will have none of those mysterious 'blow-outs' that some keep going on about . Cheers, and safe motoring . :thumbs: :thumbs: :thanks	Richard (739)
645896	2008-03-05 02:08:00	Perhaps Billy like to reply,although I know controversy is not his middle name.:banana	Cicero (40)
645897	2008-03-05 13:36:00	I'd rather roll over than sledge straight into a power pole any day. rubbish last time i checked, the roof and sides of a car are significantly weaker than the front so if you roll into a power pole, it's a definite bye-bye, plus you really have no control whatsoever, increase risk of cabin intrusion, usually have to exit via a broken window which isn't very big, and there's a good risk of fire when a hot car is resting upside-down (been warned by cops/paramedics at several accidents, plus been in such a situation myself - fuel/oil pours/leaks out onto hot stuff and she's away) all the cars i've seen that have hit poles have simply taken the bottoms out - they are designed to break that way to prevent deaths trees are a different issue, but if you're going to hit one, it's better to be frontal than side or roof impact EVERYONE here seems to have assumed you can only get a flat tyre due to its condition, that is not true, glass, nails etc can cause a flat. a worn tyre is somewhat thinner than a new one it is easier for a nail/glass etc to pierce 5mm of rubber than 10mm of rubber Someone once told me your competence was the sum total of your training+experience. Granted its as flawed as all "rules of thumb" but it does illustrate the fact that one without the other isn't worth much, Learning and experience is the desired combination. shouldn't that be the product of training*experience then? :nerd: How often does an emergency happen in a straight line? very often - ever driven around traffic lights, on motorways? on tuesday i saw two within 500m of each other - in the rain, on the motorway at 80kph; idiots slamming their brakes to cut into queues The fact that the weight goes onto the front tyres and comes off the rear tyres is the reason that the tyre makers say the rear tyres need tread depth. The whole logic around tread depth is dealing with wet conditions. If you are stopping as fast as possible and the rears lose grip (aquaplane), the car is very hard to keep in a straight line. OMG ARGH firstly we assume that all tyres have the minimum safe tread depth (ie not bald) then we see that under emergency braking there is more forces acting on the front tyres so the tyres most likely to slip are the front ones, unless there is a major weight shift (like a motorbike picking the rear off the ground) in an emergency, swerving (onto a shoulder for example) is a nice option to maintain now in a corner situation, the front slipping is also a disaster as you fly straight off the road and/or into oncoming traffic more on that further below Numerous tests have shown that it is generally easier to control the front axle than the rear axle. REALLY?:rolleyes: If the front tyres skid, the driver momentarily loses control of his steering. The action that should be taken to regain control is to lift the foot from the accelerator and to turn the steering wheel into the direction of the skid. This manoeuvre will help vehicle control to be regained. see, that is perfect advice for a rear wheel drive on a front wheel drive, which the original post was in reference to, i find letting off the gas just makes things worse and brakes make things worse again! if the rear swings out due to braking causing the rear to slip, let off the brake, countersteer, and if appropriate ride the gas "to get the front back out front" if it does so due to excessive speed, just steer it. brakes wont help and definetly dont give more gas. being young and stupid, i have had plenty of time to experiment with this. so here is where zqwerty and I seem to differ with the rest of the experts: if the front slips out on a corner you will simply fly straight off it. simple concept really corners can be controlled with the rear out sideways. they cannot if you have lost steering. otherwise, you are simply going too fast to physically get your car around that corner. unfortunately most people can barely manage a 3 point turn, keeping left and using mirrors - let alone avoiding an accident. so in THAT respect i would imagine that the rear slipping IS a bad thing as people simply slam on their brakes, obviously causing them to further spin, whereas a front slipping really only has one solution - slow down - so they manage that a bit better a good example is an accident i saw happen on my street where a 4wd, approaching a corner, downhill in the rain, had the rear slip. they slammed the brakes on, the front locked and the whole thing slid into the ditch where it promptly fell onto it's side (funny how offroad vehicles roll easier than than other ones on uneven terrain) what IS in favour of putting the new on the rear? on a FWD the front wears out faster than the rear, so many drivers will wait until the front is quite bald before replacing the front only, rather than putting the new on the rear and "finishing off" the old rear ones on the front. alternatively, they don't wait till the last moment and put the front on the rear, new on the front, and chuck the old "still good" rears in the bin. BUT, if we put them on the rear first, we simply move the old rear ones forward once the front has worn down and put the new on the rear. simple, consistent, and lessens the chance of an accident on the slippery new tyres that are yet to be scrubbed in (remember there are more forces, including steering, on the front) this way there is always a reasonable amount of tread on the tyres but no tyre company conspiracy theory:annoyed:.... two beers and an armchair at 2am.... i suppose i should don my flame-proof suit when i get up tomorrow morning:thumbs:	motorbyclist (188)
645898	2008-03-06 10:46:00	[reads all eight- eight!- pages of thread] [checks start date- 3 March] [checks date of last entry] :waughh: Blimey, this is a bit contentious, isn't it! Sticking tyres on the rear didn't seem to make much sense to me as I figured for FWD cars that the front ones were more important, since they did the steering and driving stuff, and when my ex-flatmate got his ones done (and put on the rear) it did make me wonder. There has been a whole range of opinions expressed, and barring the obvious ones to ignore (like porsches- c'mon, comparing virtually all cars to high performance ones with the engine and transmission at the back?!), reasons on both sides both appear to hold water, so by all means continue arguing, hell this is a good debate, and one of the reasons I keep on coming back to this site! Which reminds me to get back to my original aim of checking my router post! Oh, and I try to change all four at the same time- they started as four new ones and when I got it, had four new ones since, about to buy four more since they're all worn- I rotate from front to back but on the same side since they are directional (SJ46, I think you were thinking of say, front left to rear right being bad for directional tyres?). Buying four at once hurts the wallet, but then I don't have to hurt my head thinking over the arguments based in this thread!	Sick Puppy (6959)
645899	2008-03-06 12:07:00	If a tyre is worn excessively, it should be tossed. The bit that connects the car to the earth via the tyre is a tad smaller than the hand print of an old fashioned person patting a child where nature intended. When whizzing briskly around a corner on a gravel (Dirt for Surfer Joe) track it is not really enough to think that "I was gonna change 'em" - ask the insurance companies. (BTW, listening to any replies from insurers marks you as a certain type of person.) If you want to test your pension plan, have 4 good tyres. If you want to test your medical plan, skimp on tyres. The more you value yourself, the less you should value old tyres. If you (heaven forbid) want to take any family members on the road, maybe you should consider the difference in fixing kin to changing tyres. I just watched the flashing lights etc. and heard the noises of someone finding that a tyre or two was a bit insufficient in the wet. Fortunately none of the blood was mine, and the car wasn't either. Still, not a fun way to pass an hour.:( :( :(	R2x1 (4628)
645900	2008-03-07 02:26:00	just drove the old man's ute omg he must've kerbed it badly as you physically have to steer the car right to go in a straight line apparently it's been like that for years atleast it's veering to the left i suppose..... granted since he got a bike he hardly drives it, but that's no excuse for piss-poor alignment and balding tyres	motorbyclist (188)
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