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Thread ID: 88489	2008-03-29 05:26:00	Who do you blame for the price of milk ?	Digby (677)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
653935	2008-03-29 23:41:00	And I'll bet most of them came from the same treatment plant... Well one udder or another	plod (107)
653936	2008-03-29 23:48:00	Well Laura, you are right - Cheap/unknown brands (around 2.50 for 2 litres here in Otara - a high unemployed/solo mother beneficiary population area), can be portrayed as specials, even though not specifically advertised as such. Perhaps in more affluent areas/super markets, etc, such cheap brands may not exist or be marketed, and more expensive brands, I think, may not be offered on special discounts or with some sort of promotion strategy...Sort of like selective targeting...	kahawai chaser (3545)
653937	2008-03-30 00:16:00	And they'll just pass on the cost of the "fart tax" to us. They really have the country over a barrel because they know that we know, without dairy, our economy would resemble a smoking hole in the ground. The threat of a fart tax, and the government negiotiating with them, may help then provide the NZ market with better milk prices. It is a little like businesses providing, 'mates rates', for friends. I mean why can't they make an exception for the country that helped setup and market the clean green image that NZ produced milk has. At the moment, NZers are subsitiing the entire NZ milk production, however we are only 5% of the NZ produced milkmarket. At least if we charge them the fart tax, that cost will then be spread across the entire milk market they sell to, which will ultimately mean we will be paying less for the CO2 emmissions they produce, even if we are paying slightly more for the milk we buy. It will ultimately result in a saving for NZ tax payers.	robbyp (2751)
653938	2008-03-30 01:28:00	If there was only another acceptable quality process to mass produce milk, without cows and the massive labour and downstream activities/distribution systems involved, then pricing might be significantly different - hopefully lower. I wonder how the plastic packagers fit, must be profitable for them too. I worked part time recently at a plastic resin import company (importing the repol HDPE (Polyethylene) brand from Reliance (http://www.ril.com/)India) as sole customer manager. The prices were marked up significantly to plastic companies, who in turn must add on a fair percentage...	kahawai chaser (3545)
653939	2008-03-30 01:41:00	If there was only another acceptable quality process to mass produce milk, without cows and the massive labour and downstream activities/distribution systems involved, then pricing might be significantly different - hopefully lower. I wonder how the plastic packagers fit, must be profitable for them too. I worked part time recently at a plastic resin import company (importing the repol HDPE (Polyethylene) brand from Reliance (http://www.ril.com/)India) as sole customer manager. The prices were marked up significantly to plastic companies, who in turn must add on a fair percentage... Are we blaming RIL for this?	beeswax34 (63)
653940	2008-03-30 04:54:00	"At the moment NZers are subsidising the entire NZ milk production..." Which New Zealanders are those, robbyp? Not me. And how are they doing that? (BTW, I wish people would stop talking about the fart tax. It's old history now. A dead duck. A dried cowpat. A forgotten rumble. A deodorised smell... ) .	Laura (43)
653941	2008-03-30 06:24:00	"At the moment NZers are subsidising the entire NZ milk production..." Which New Zealanders are those, robbyp? Not me. And how are they doing that? (BTW, I wish people would stop talking about the fart tax. It's old history now. A dead duck. A dried cowpat. A forgotten rumble. A deodorised smell... ) . It's call the Kyoto Protocol. I am unsure if we are paying for it just yet, but we will in the future, as cows produce a lot of CO2. Inless the farmers are taxed for that CO2, NZ taxpayers will end up paying for it somewhere else. It is not something that is going to go away, just because it is unpopular, look at the antismacking law, which the public on the whole does not agree with. With milk prices the way they are, and the farmers making huge profits, the public are going to be less sympathetic to the farmers the next time it is brought up. What was the outcome last time it was brought up, how were the government going to offset the cow CO2 emmissions?	robbyp (2751)
653942	2008-03-30 07:06:00	I think you mean methane, robbyp, not carbon dioxide. CO2 is a colourless, odourless gas. Unlike cow farts.	johcar (6283)
653943	2008-03-30 07:22:00	Most countries that produce fundamental but essential products for world markets, are surely likely to be cheap for their domestic market/consumers (e.g. cars/electronics in Japan; Rice and after market popular products in China). So milk should be significantly cheaper in NZ (if not already) relative to their export markets. I have noticed, there is hardly ever "specials" or promotions in pricing for milk (for over 25 years), like beverages (particularly Lion Red, DB, etc). Perhaps a constraint by Fonterra? OK. If we get off dairy products we could think about wool for example. Back when I was a young person I worked in the clothing industry. We had Kaiapoi Group in Petone and Alliance Textiles in the South Island. We still shear sheep and wool prices have dropped. We do not have a textile or clothing indundstry any more apart from a few high end clothing suppliers. At that time you had to have overseas funds to buy a car and also most goods had to go by rail if more than 50 miles. Without quoting any of Lauras' post I am with her on this one. Collectively, as a country, we decided to buy cheaper goods manufacterd by the likes of China, Taiwan and Japan. Fonterra in my view actually are the only Company in New Zealand who actually collect the raw product and add value to it. Take logging as well. Most forestry products are exported and we import in the form of paper. I really like the word "should" you used in the quote above. Next time you buy a new Motherboard for your computer try buying one made in NZ.	Sweep (90)
653944	2008-03-30 08:10:00	And I'll bet most of them came from the same treatment plant... They not only come out of the same treatment plant, but (having worked in similar industries) you can point to any home brand and almost all come out of the very same local factories and production lines that produce the branded versions. I see the 5%/95% ratio has been bandied about. When I made that assertion I said at least 95% - the reality is that about 5-6 years ago the percentage of milk solids exported was 98% of local production - but I rounded this to 95% because I haven't had an update since. Also their annual report states they "process approximately 95% of all NZ milk" - in other words, the liquid milk is transformed into something else (e.g. milk powder, which is exported). Their annual report also states, when trying to put a value on milk, as part of assessing themselves : "it is not appropriate to use prices paid for milk outside New Zealand due to the significant variances in cost structures between the New Zealand dairy industry and that in other countries and the relatively small proportion of New Zealand milk that is sold fresh in New Zealand." First up there's an admission that very little of the milk produced here is actually sold/consumed here. But how is it we have to pay international prices for our milk, but they won't measure themselves using the same basis? What gives???? Consider also the following objective from their annual report : "ensure Fonterra remains one of the lowest cost, sustainable dairy co-operatives in the world." Translation : we will screw down the costs as far as possible to remain one of the lowest cost international suppliers, but we are happy to ream our local consumers. Fonterra is set up in such a way that the supplier to the local markets has to buy their milk on the open market - just like everyone else. Consider you have a customer who contributes less than 5% of your sales. Are they likely to get a discount? No. Are they likely to incur significantly less 'processing' costs given a relatively greater proportion of the milk consumed needs no additional processing other than pasteurisation? Of course. But is this taken into account when supplying the local market? No. Here we are earning local wages but are expected to pay international prices for our dairy products, when we are the country with the surplus milk! I have no doubt in my mind there are bulk purchasing discounts, so other countries with the greatest need (or the greatest production / consumption gap) will get the lowest price. Where is the sense in that? If they have a need, and the supply chain process is already firmly entrenched, exactly where else are they going to get their milk from? The rest of the world can't suddenly magic up another few million metric tonnes of milk! So in summary screw Fonterra and their flawed business model, as it relates to local consumers. My attempt at cutting all dairy from my diet has just been extended. Plus it's not the great food group we are lead to believe anyway. Thanks to your incompetence Fonterra, you now have one less consumer. Hopefully for life....	andrew93 (249)
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