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Thread ID: 88608	2008-04-02 04:56:00	The Springbok Tour of 1981	AMD3ALL3THE3WAY3 (116)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
655203	2008-04-02 04:56:00	For homework i needed to ask someone, who was there, what they thought of the springbok tour and what happened around them. Unfortunately family friends and family either dont remember, dont wanna talk about it, or werent in NZ at the time, mostly the latter. All my social studies teacher wants to know is What YOU remember of it and where you stood and whether there were any divisions/riots/etc. that happened near you? Thanks any help appreciated, im actually very intrigued by what i have learnt so far, Cheers, AMDx3	AMD3ALL3THE3WAY3 (116)
655204	2008-04-02 05:51:00	Do I remember? Yes I do, remarkable as that may seem . Where did I stand? Hmm, where did I stand, that's a real toughy . I hope your teacher appreciates that the 81 tour wasn't a one hour 20 minute wonder and that remembering where I was standing during the entire tour is nigh on impossible to recall with any accuracy . Division? tick . Riots? tick . etc? Definitely, in fact this was the fun part .	Murray P (44)
655205	2008-04-02 06:10:00	It was a difficult time for anyone who enjoyed rugby but deplored the White South African regime. We used to argue whether we'd go to a game if one was played nearby, or watch it on TV - or switch off. The intensity of the feeling throughout NZ is difficult to express but it really divided our society at the time. I felt sorry for the Police who were caught in the middle, trying to keep the protesters and rugby-heads apart. Yes, some police did get carried away with their batons but compared with riot control in other nations, it was low key.	Winston001 (3612)
655206	2008-04-02 12:02:00	I rather formed the opinion that the behaviour of the Minto mob was pretty deplorable. However the formation of the uniformed red and blue gangs marked the sharp start of a decline in Police credibility and performance. We all lost.	R2x1 (4628)
655207	2008-04-02 18:10:00	My opinion then, and now, is that everyone should obey the law.Just because you do not approve of a law is no excuse for running riot and trying to change it with mindless violence. I believe the riots were organised by hooligan radicals and the usual crowd of sheep followed along. Whether the tour should have happened or not is immaterial. It was organised within the law, and approved by the authorities. Just think for a moment. What sort of a country would we be living in if we rioted everytime we disagreed with a legal decision. I consider the police acted with remarkable tolerance to the law breakers. If I had been running the country I would have had the army in with fixed bayonets to remove the rioters. And the ringleaders would still be in gaol. Even today I still hear people talking about the politics of other countries . I say what happens elsewhere in the world is nothing to do with us,or any other country. If we invite people to our country they should be treated as guests. Or ignored if you like. But illegal riots Never One other thought. Take a look at the countries around the world where rioting is a way of life. Look at the living conditions of the majority of their citazens. Who apart from Minto and his cronies wants those conditions here?	JJJJJ (528)
655208	2008-04-02 18:35:00	The intensity of the feeling throughout NZ is difficult to express but it really divided our society at the time. . That expresses it. Some friendships were difficult at the time, and really only resumed later. The same thing happened in families and workplaces.	R.M. (561)
655209	2008-04-02 18:55:00	I was in High School at the time. As I paid little attention to the way of the world at that time I had the same sentiments as JJJJJ. I recall the Hamilton game that was called off due to protesters invading the pitch, we were all horrified, we wanted our rugby! I remember watching it on TV at a friends house and we saw one of our teachers in the middle of the pitch. He was a good teacher but things changed after that. He was mocked within our circles. When I started to learn of the way of the world, on reflection I have great admiration for those that protested back then and I became a little ashamed. When you consider the fortitude these people had to stand up for an inequality that was not of this land I am impressed. I am however curious to think that many protested for a worthwhile cause but the same amount of oppostion was not had for the plight of indigenous people here, or Australia, Tibet or Darfur. I think sometimes protesting is a fashion statement	sam m (517)
655210	2008-04-02 19:46:00	Contrary to JJJJJ, I believe that some people in any society will face the prospect of breaking the law in order to bring about change . Did Minto et . al . invoke change in South Africa? - This can never be 'proven' but I do recall Nelson Mandela saying that it did in fact make a difference . What we have to do is to look at the broad scale of things . Does flour bombing a rugby field stop apartheid in SA? No . Do multiple social protests around the world over a period of years stop apartheid? Yes, I do believe it did . Same with the Vietnam war . One protest march that I went on did not stop the war but Nixon and his cronies were in fact deeply disturbed by the ongoing protests, especially the huge ones in Washington DC . Without the worldwide protests the war would have continued longer (or maybe not as the NVArmy and Viet Cong were gaining steadily and politicians interfered with [USA] military planning, but that is another matter) . Another thread here is about the Beijing Olympics and Tibet . If NZ boycots the games imho it will make stuff all difference, and even if 20 countries boycot the games it will not cause China to change their ways in Tibet . But a big boycot of the games could create further protest, such as a world wide stop to buying Chinese made items . Or thats how idealists would have us believe . Personally I don't think anything will make the Chinese change their ways in Tibet, at least in the short term (within a year or two) . Another 10 or 20 years of protests . . . maybe . AMD3ALL3THE3WAY3, if you want to score points with your teacher, try to present the issue in the broadest of terms, about changing society, changing the world, and not just about one rugby tour . Throw in saving the whales from the Japanese, and global warming . Greenpeace throwing sour butter onto Japanese whaling ships, and Christchurch turning off lights for world energy (or whatever that was called) - these actions in themselves amount to nothing, changes nothing . However, over a period of years with similar actions made around the world, then change could very well happen . . . as it did in South Africa .	Strommer (42)
655211	2008-04-02 20:34:00	I was in my last year of college when my Mum (!) asked me & my big brother to accompany her on the protest in Wellington. I was pretty disgusted by the SA regime (plus couldn't say no to Mum on something this important) & was intending to basically ignore the tour. We spent the day running around Newtown trying to evade the police so we could block off streets around Athletic park & let our voices be heard. Was pretty exciting doing my first ever civil disobedience thing, but it was pretty mundane stuff compared to Hamilton, for instance. There were a lot of people my mother's age protesting - it wasn't all radical student types. I agree with Rx21 that there was bad behaviour on both sides, but this should not be tolerated in the Police, whose training should let them act with a lot more restraint. I was disgusted later on to find out that my neighbour in the force was joking about the techniques used on the tour, such as jamming the baton up under the chin guard of those protesters with helmets on. Looking back on it now, I'm sure that it made a real difference, purely on the huge publicity it must have got back in SA in the rugby world & in conjunction with Commonwealth Games boycotts around the time - remember that other African countries boycotted the Games on the basis that NZ was there & we had contacts with SA -the Springbok tour plus the "Cavaliers" put us offside with many. It's sad that the same effect might have been achieved if Muldoon and/or the Rugby Union had taken a stand.	MushHead (10626)
655212	2008-04-02 21:51:00	Winston - you said, "It was a difficult time for anyone who enjoyed rugby but deplored the White South African regime." True. Ian Smith and his cronies were not nice, but I never understood why his countrymen should be punished because of what he believed in and for his actions. If the Springboks declared that they supported the government and it's policies, then yes, don't let them in! But, as I recall, they made little or no comment. They were here to play rugby, not discuss their government's policy. JJJJJ - I am in complete agreement. I totally disagree with any lawbreaking to make a point - justified or otherwise. If you must protest - and that is a democratic right - then do it peacefully. The 1981 protests were a disgrace! Much of it orchestrated. It is very easy to be caught up with the mood of that type of thing. People like Minto were very good at whipping a crowd into a frenzy. Once in that state people usually do silly things without thinking. I watched the broadcast and was so very surprised that that could happen here. The South African rugby players were just here to play rugby. The All Blacks wanted to play rugby and so many NZers wanted to watch. It was all spoilt, as is usually the case, by a loud and vocal minority. I do not believe those protesters were speaking for the majority of NZs. I am however curious to think that many protested for a worthwhile cause but the same amount of oppostion was not had for the plight of indigenous people here, or Australia, Tibet or Darfur. Just a small point, and a bit off the subject: we do not have any indigenous people here in NZ. I know that they like to call the Maoris indigenous but even their own history says they came to NZ from a place called Hawaiki. Indigenous: native; not exotic.	Roscoe (6288)
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