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Thread ID: 88626	2008-04-03 01:14:00	new car exhaust law june 1st this year	markh (12164)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
655726	2008-04-09 03:50:00	Theoretically . . . your vehicle is set to run at max performance coupled with the least generated emissions on the fuel recommended . This takes into consideration that the fuel you are buying is really the octane you think it is or is advertised on the pump . Don't get me wrong . . . I am an old hot rodder and did the things youse guys are trying . I had to run Chevron White Pump (112 octane) when I ran 13 . 5:1 and dual quads . Well . . . they (there's always a "they" . . right?) decided to drop the old octane ratings system right after the US went lead-free . The octane is now an average of the METHOD and RESEARCH values . They call it R+M/2 . Cute, huh? Anyway . . . . . . . . . . . . adding a higher octane fuel can give the feel and appearance of better acceleration when you consider that you are directly retarding the timing of the fuel flamefront propagation and are thereby retarding the dynamic timing actually lowering the cylinder pressure . . . but that's not what you want! That fact is that it actually FEELS a little better in the seat of the pants . . . but it generates a lot more heat on the exhaust valves, the headers and the cat . At higher RPM, the engine then needs more advance . . . and if you are strangling the necessary requirements, then you are actually losing power on the mid- and top end . During the days of mandatory NOx devices in California, the cheapest way out was to retard the timing, disconnect the vacuum advance and lean the carb out until it barely idled and jack up the idle speed to compensate . Called the "Kar-Kit", it destroyed many engines by overheating the valves, burning holes in the pistons and raising the cylinder temps above the critical limit and overheating the cooling system . This plan of using higher octane fuel doesn't take into consideration the newer electronics and sensor systems that will override most any attempts to get a few more ponies outta the engine . I built an pre-computer engine to pull a lot of weight and keeping the compression ratio low, I also advanced the cam timing . That works well . . . and the trade-off is that it dies off at higher RPM . Anything over 6,000RPM gets chopped a little . Here's a corollary (this also applies to ignition timing): Retard the cam: low end power Advance the cam: high end power . Retarded cams (older engines with a lot of slop in the chains/gears/valve train and rockers, will keep on clopping along at higher and higher speeds, never seeming to run out of steam as they approach their terminal velocity . A fresh engine will be spot-on for timing if it's set up that way . . . but if the cam is advanced by setting it up that way, the engine will have more power at low end . Variable timing camshafts are making their inroad now . . . even cams with dual profiles and multiple valves to take advantage of the flow characteristics of either or both of the cams as the performance program calls for it . The wall? Stoichiometric efficiency . Photochemical smog with nitrogen-bonds from the temperatures and pressures in the engines . In the future with at least a 48 volt primary electrical system, the valves will be driven by solenoids from the computer . . that way offering any cam profile-advance/retard the engine needs or can use . . within specs for emissions and performance . Just remember however, that your engine is a glorified heat pump . It needs the expansive value of the heat via the flamefront propagation to push the pistons down . If the fuel is still burning when the exhaust valve opens, you are just dumping some of that heat/energy out the tailpipe and not turning the wheels . Just for nostalgia, here's the OFFICIAL web-doc for the Kar-Kit that we used to have to install . . but are now out of date . . . but be sure to read it . . . it will point out the problems with retarding the engine either via physically changing the timing or dynamically retarding the fuel front propagation via high octane beyond design parameters : Kar Kit Emission Control System for 1955-65/1966/70 Vehicles Air Quality Products, Inc . 1976, Orange, CA 92668 The retarded spark timing approach used by Kar Kit controls emissions solely by retarding engine spark advance and carburetor adjustment . Kar Kit, and all State of California Air Resources Board-approved used vehicle exhaust emission control systems, uses retarded spark timing techniques . Retarded spark control systems are also used on many new vehicles . The various devices either completely or partially disconnect the vacuum advance mechanism, and some systems also retard the vehicle’s base timing for further control . Also, the systems include specific procedures for carburetor idle speed and mixture adjustment . Kar Kit is not recommended for vehicles with impaired or defective cooling systems . All spark retard systems have the common disadvantage of reduced gas mileage and somewhat higher engine operating temperatures . However, gas mileage reduction is generally very small due to the carburetor adjustments which tend to offset this reduction . Retarding the spark timing means that the spark plug fires at a later time in the compression stroke of the engine . Retarded spark timing is accomplished with Kar Kit by (1) disconnecting the vacuum to a mechanism which causes the plugs to fire earlier under certain operating conditions; and (2) adjusting the basic spark timing to a later setting on most engines . Retarding the spark timing can reduce the formation of oxides of nitrogen (NOx) by 40% to 50% . The effects of retarded spark timing on your engine result from the fact that gasoline is burned less efficiently in the cylinders . This can cause an increase in gas consumption, less in the city and more on the highways . Part of the increased gas consumed is burned while the gases are being exhausted from the engine, rather than on the power stroke, thus increasing the average temperature of the exhaust gases . The effects of hotter exhaust gases on your engine depend upon the engine design, and the condition of the cooling and lubrication systems . In some engines, more heat will be transferred into the cooling system . In other engines, the heat load on the cooling system may remain the same . The installation of the Kar Kit emission control system include an inspection of the cooling system and the recommended repair of defects because we can not identify the specific engines which cause added cooling system heat load . This maintenance, however, is a good idea, regardless . Test data show that leakage and poor maintenance of cooling systems are far greater problems during periods of hot weather than small increases in coolant temperatures from retarded spark timing . Exhaust system components of all engines will operate hotter with retarded spark timing, including the exhaust valves, the exhaust manifold, and the exhaust pipes . Possible problems from hotter exhaust manifolds and exhaust pipes can be avoided by checking to see if there is sufficient clearance between these exhaust parts and other parts of the vehicle . This inspection is part of the Kar Kit emission control system . Engine exhaust gas temperatures normally increase with greater speed and load . These increases, however, are generally greater with spark retard . On later models (1966-1970), the state requires that approved devices which use a significant amount of spark retard include a means for reducing the temperatures above 60MPH . Most approved systems (both new and used car) include an electrical or mechanical switch which restores normal timing at the higher speeds, thus reducing the temperatures . The Kar Kit 1966-1970 (NOx) approved device is designed as a simple low cost system and is recommended only for limited duty vehicles which are not operated at high speed . Therefore the system does not include the expensive switches necessary to restore timing at high speeds . The Kar Kit includes a decal which is affixed to the speedometer to remind the owner not to operate the vehicle for sustained periods above 60MPH . Installation instructions: The Kar Kit installation includes several steps which must be followed . They include cooling system inspection, distributor advance check, de-activation of vacuum spark advance, and readjustment of basic timing, carburetor mixture and idle speed to Kar Kit specifications . Kar Kit use limitations: The Kar Kit is a low cost NOx control system, designed for limited duty vehicles, and the following use limitations are to be observed . If these installation or operating limitations conflict with your vehicle condition, configuration or operating requirements, DO NOT INSTALL Kar Kit . * 1 . DO NOT OPERATE vehicles equipped with Kar Kit at sustained speeds above 60MPH (short periods of emergency and passing are OK) . Installation of Kar Kit on vehicles which operate a major part of the time at either sustained high speed or have load conditions (such as towing a trailer) is not recommended . HEAT!!! * 2 . DO NOT INSTALL on engines engines less than 50 cubic inches or on engines with distributors without centrifugal or vacuum advance . * 3 . DO NOT INSTALL on Volkswagen or Porsche . No vacuum advance . . also not on Ford CBZ-type distributors . * 4 . DO NOT INSTALL on engines with impaired or defective cooling systems . HEAT!!! Step 1) Inspection & maintenance of the cooling system Step 2) Distributor check Step 3) Disconnection of vacuum advance Step 4) Ignition Timing Check and Adjustment (1966-1970) Adjust timing at an idle speed recommended by the engine manufacturer . Set at 1° BTC on all engines except those where the manufacturer’s specified setting is: * More retarded than 1° BTC – then set at the manufacturer’s specified setting for these engines * More advanced than 7 . 5° BTC – then set at 1/2 of the manufacturer’s specified setting for these engines . Step 5) Adjustment of Carburetor (1966-1970) Adjust the carburetor idle speed and idle mixture in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications . Step 6) Exhaust system inspection Inspect clearance between the exhaust system and any point on the chassis . Adjust if clearance is less than 1/2” . HEAT!!! Step 7) Documentation Affix “limited use” decal to face of speedometer . Install Tune-Up instruction decal within engine compartment in conspicuous location .	SurferJoe46 (51)
655727	2008-04-09 07:10:00	Yeah, I started Uni this year and so have come in contact with alot more car enthusiasts, or actually, most of these guys are 'ricers' . The only mods they ever talk about are those that actually decrease performance (but they think otherwise) or to make that thing louder . Classic example is actually a friend of mine, not meaning to offend him but I still can't get it through to him how his car will not go faster with this new 'trademe' spoiler he wanted to buy . He plans he will bolt that thing on and increase his speed . Even if his car were able to go fast enough out of the factory to take advantage of a spoiler (definitely not this spoiler though, it's one of those half meter tall thin things) , now that his car is ~15 years old, he has installed twin subs in the boot, a bodykit, bigger and heavier wheels, I highly doubt he will experience any difference . He's the same guy that proudly sticks turbo stickers and various other 'performance branded' stickers onto his beat up auto trans n/a shopping trolley of a car . And then there is this I used to know a long time ago that had this crazy exhaust system installed onto his corolla (it cost him more than his car, but . . the car was only like $200), it was so annoying, could hear it from a very long way away . Very surprised how he could get away with driving around in it . To add to the topic though, 90db is still pretty loud isn't it? From upgrading mufflers, you can experience better performance somtimes, if all the right stuff is done, and better economy too, as compared to stock but this does not have to come at the expense of a terribly noisy exhaust . I know mine is currently pretty good, its just the stock exhaust and I'm happy with it, it's not super quiet but its not annoying like those boy racer 'fart cannons' . Actually, whenever I hear my car from the outside I am very surprised at how quiet that thing is . It feels 100x louder on the inside that out .	Deathwish (143)
655728	2008-04-09 12:42:00	his car will not go faster with this new 'trademe' spoiler he wanted to buy. He plans he will bolt that thing on and increase his speed. Even if his car were able to go fast enough out of the factory to take advantage of a spoiler (definitely not this spoiler though, it's one of those half meter tall thin things) , ok, ignoring the fact that his engine is "wasting" power running his subs and whatnot, how the hell can anyone think a spoiler helps a car go faster? sure the downforce, if produced in the right amounts in the right places, can help in a corner, but that force is also slowing the car down! how can people not understand this?! argh my brain! also, kinda annoying on the motorway following hatchbacks/stationwagons/vans with spoilers. they throw off really "dirty", turbulent air that would otherwise be relatively smooth:annoyed: T That fact is that it actually FEELS a little better in the seat of the pants...but it generates a lot more heat on the exhaust valves, the headers and the cat. good post:thumbs: but you've gotta accept that provided it feels like it's better, and you beleive it to be better, you are really getting what you paid for. of course if you've got a race vehicle, you know better. (looking for lap times, not feel)	motorbyclist (188)
655729	2008-04-09 22:48:00	ok, ignoring the fact that his engine is "wasting" power running his subs and whatnot, how the hell can anyone think a spoiler helps a car go faster? sure the downforce, if produced in the right amounts in the right places, can help in a corner, but that force is also slowing the car down! how can people not understand this?! argh my brain! also, kinda annoying on the motorway following hatchbacks/stationwagons/vans with spoilers . they throw off really "dirty", turbulent air that would otherwise be relatively smooth:annoyed: good post:thumbs: but you've gotta accept that provided it feels like it's better, and you beleive it to be better, you are really getting what you paid for . of course if you've got a race vehicle, you know better . (looking for lap times, not feel) haha yeah, my friend makes for some really really interesting conversations . He was also telling me how he wants to in future add in a hoodscoop (not venting air into anything, just to chuck it on top of his car, and another to bolt ontop of his bonnet) . I told him doing that would only add drag and excess weight to his car, he ignored me and responded "why do so many people do that then!" . Haha, can't reason with those kind of guys, bloody need for speed lol . He plays too much of that .	Deathwish (143)
655730	2008-04-09 23:10:00	also what is up with the muppets that dont know what car they own? ive seen "Type R" stickers on a Nissan Skyline GT-E "NISMO" Stickers on a Toyota Levin "VTEC" stickers on a Mitsubishi Lancer and ive also seen a Telstar GL booting round with "TWINCAM EFI VVT-I" painted on with what looked like schoolbook Twink rumor has it that a "Type R" sticker automatically makes the engine produce 35HP extra at least if it was on a Honda Integra genuine Type R it would make sense wouldnt it....	MAC_H8ER (5897)
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