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Thread ID: 89268	2008-04-25 22:29:00	Gasoline Prices In The US	SurferJoe46 (51)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
662663	2008-04-29 22:06:00	They do earn more! Everything costs more too, no? It all evens itself out.	wratterus (105)
662664	2008-04-29 22:54:00	Received the following recently from a South African who has worked at the Marian Hill Pipeline for the past 31 years which may be of some help: Only fill your car early in the morning when the ground temperature is still cold. Remember that service stations have their storage tanks below ground. The colder the ground temperature the more dense the fuel. When it becomes warmer the petrol expands, so when buying your petrol in the afternoon or evening, your litre is not exactly a litre. In the petroleum business, the specific gravity and the temperature of petrol, diesel, jet fuel and other petroleum products plays an important role. A one degree rise is a big deal for this business. But the service stations do not have temperature compensation at the pumps. When filling your car, do not squeeze the trigger to a fast mode. The trigger has three stages, low, middle and high. In slow mode you are pumping at a slow speed thereby minimising the vapours that are created while you are pumping. All hoses have a vapour return. If you are pumping at a fast rate some of the liquid that enters your tank becomes vapour. Those vapours are being sucked up and back into the storage tank so you are receiving less worth for your money. One of the most important tips is to fill your tank when it is half full. The reason for this is that the more fuel you have in your tank the less amount of air is occupying its empty space. Petrol evaporates at a faster rate than you can imagine. Petroleum storage tanks have an internal floating roof. The roof acts as zero clearance between the petrol and the atmosphere and so minimises evapouration. Unlike service stations, all tankers that load at petroleum storage facilities are temperature compensated so that every litre is the exact amount. Another tip: If the petrol tanker is delivering fuel when you stop to refuel, do not fill up. Most probably the petrol or diesel is being stirred up as the feul is being delivered and you may pick up some of the dirt that normally settles on the bottom. Hope that the above will help you obtain the most value for your money. While the savings may be small, they do tend to add up to a significant amount for each time you visit the pumps.	Roscoe (6288)
662665	2008-04-30 03:23:00	Received the following recently from a South African who has worked at the Marian Hill Pipeline for the past 31 years which may be of some help: Only fill your car early in the morning when the ground temperature is still cold . Remember that service stations have their storage tanks below ground . The colder the ground temperature the more dense the fuel . When it becomes warmer the petrol expands, so when buying your petrol in the afternoon or evening, your litre is not exactly a litre . In the petroleum business, the specific gravity and the temperature of petrol, diesel, jet fuel and other petroleum products plays an important role . A one degree rise is a big deal for this business . But the service stations do not have temperature compensation at the pumps . THIS IS ONLY TRUE IN AN ABOVE-THE-GROUND TANK . . . ever dig a hole in the ground and feel the almost constant cooler temp there? It's impossible to warm the tank underground with just the daily dose of sunshine unless the sun never sets and the tank gets warmer by very small increments every day . When filling your car, do not squeeze the trigger to a fast mode . The trigger has three stages, low, middle and high . In slow mode you are pumping at a slow speed thereby minimising the vapours that are created while you are pumping . All hoses have a vapour return . If you are pumping at a fast rate some of the liquid that enters your tank becomes vapour . Those vapours are being sucked up and back into the storage tank so you are receiving less worth for your money . THE ONLY DIFFERENCE HERE IS THE POSSIBLE wetting of the tank neck when it is hot from ambient temperature . Vapor recovery systems can indeed capture any fumes and vapors that might come back from the tank . . . but the effect is so minimal, that you can usually discount the problem as just wetting the hotter neck of the vehicle tank . . which will then produce a small amount of vapor and it will be captured . If the correction at the metering device cannot make allowances for this returned fuel vapor and correct the amount (as they are required to do in most advanced countries) . . . then you live in the wrong place and you are on your own . Tokheim and Shelly and most other tank and metering device manufacturers are required to discount for vapor returned to the vending tank . It's the law of the land . . . in the US by the Federal Weights & Measure Commission . . . and any stations that do NOT refund or recompute the amount by measuring the returned vapor weight . . . are in direct violation of the law . One of the most important tips is to fill your tank when it is half full . The reason for this is that the more fuel you have in your tank the less amount of air is occupying its empty space . Petrol evaporates at a faster rate than you can imagine . Petroleum storage tanks have an internal floating roof . (Not any more! They were dangerous and just a fire and explosion hazard . Your country may vary in laws . . . if it even has any! . ) THIS MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL . Your fuel tank has no idea what level the fuel is . . and as for evaporation . . . you will lose any vapors into the (either) charcoal cannister for that purpose or the vapors will be taken to the crankcase of the engine for future burning when the engine is running . It's part of the modern (since 1966 or so) vapor vreco9very system that is built into each and every automobile/truck/tractor made since that time by all sorts of international conventions and treaties . Again, in vehicles that are older and less sophisticated, if you allow the tank to drop in fuel level somewhat . . . then the chance of admitting moist evening/nighttime air into the tank was a lot higher . Not so with modern vehicles . They have a suction check valve that will recover any vapors that got into the charcoal or other vapor recovery cannister or reservoir, back into the tank to keep everything at a nominally vacumized pressure . . . or lack of pressure really . The possibilities of atmospheric exchange of fuel vapors (and the resultant smog generation) have well-been taken care of and the chances of some getting out or air getting in except when the cap is off . . . are indeed very unlikely . It's a closed system nowadays and it should not allow the exchange of gasses . . . . either way . This goes completely out the window if your vehicle has been tampered with or any systems are removed . The roof acts as zero clearance between the petrol and the atmosphere and so minimises evapouration . (I debunked that already!) . Unlike service stations, all tankers that load at petroleum storage facilities are temperature compensated so that every litre is the exact amount . That's a split idea . . . let me take one at a time . First . . fuel is measure by weight at the depots . . usually . Here's the catch: If you get hot or cold fuel into a tank truck . . the tank truck will still have the correct amount of fuel when it leaves the depot . . by weight . Fuel at the dispensing station is measured by actual dispensed liquid flow . . . . quite different . What YOU pay for is the volume of the fuel by FLOW . . . not weight . . so there is no reason to even think of this as a problem . There is no "floating" roof in your fuel tank . It might have a small closed expansion bag flooded with nitrogen gas to allow the tank to build some pressure without dumping raw fuel on the ground by sending it into the recovery cannister or crankcase . It isn't "lost" either . . it is captured and burned when the engine is running . It contributes to the turning of the wheels effect in the long run . Modern tanks in vehicles run at a vacuum anyway . . . so this roof-tank idea is just full of BS . Again . . . the metering systems in service stations are controlled by the appropriate Bureau of Weights & Measure in your respective countries . If they let you get shorted, then you should move to a more modern place . . . like Cuba or Spain . . . . in any case got Out Of Africa . (Ohh! That's a pun!) Another tip: If the petrol tanker is delivering fuel when you stop to refuel, do not fill up . Most probably the petrol or diesel is being stirred up as the feul is being delivered and you may pick up some of the dirt that normally settles on the bottom . Nonsense! Post-tank filtering is a standard too . . . and if they had any dirt or debris in their tank . . then you are living in some backwoods, jerkwater country that had the peasants carrying gasoline in tin cans on their camels or water buffaloes from the fuel depot . Hope that the above will help you obtain the most value for your money . While the savings may be small, they do tend to add up to a significant amount for each time you visit the pumps . The above is full of old wives' tales and other silly notions that you are being cheated . In the very olden days, this was likely . . even worse than that . . . it happened all the time when scales and metering devices were clunky or non-existent . Hopefully the Marian Hill Pipeline isn't sending fuel to NZ or any other modern country . They are cheating people with those archaic (and even criminal) ideas .	SurferJoe46 (51)
662666	2008-04-30 03:28:00	He has some interesting ideas old Roscoe. :confused:	wratterus (105)
662667	2008-04-30 04:55:00	He has some interesting ideas old Roscoe. :confused: Not so much of the "old", please. Very young at heart! Joe: Thanks for all of that. The closest I have come to the petroleum industry is putting fuel in my own tank. I had no idea that it was all Old Wive's Tales. When it comes from somebody who works in the industry something like that does not lack credibility - until Joe comes along! Luckily we have a reasonable public transport system running near our house and work which has not increased prices for a very long time. Beats the car any day!	Roscoe (6288)
662668	2008-04-30 05:01:00	Not so much of the "old", please. Very young at heart! I didn't mean it that way. :p ;)	wratterus (105)
662669	2008-04-30 05:17:00	I didn't mean it that way. :p ;) That's okay. I'm starting to become used to being called an old bugger. Still appreciate a nice chest and a lovely pair of pegs! :clap	Roscoe (6288)
662670	2008-04-30 05:49:00	Not so much of the "old", please . Very young at heart! Joe: Thanks for all of that . The closest I have come to the petroleum industry is putting fuel in my own tank . I had no idea that it was all Old Wive's Tales . When it comes from somebody who works in the industry something like that does not lack credibility - until Joe comes along! Luckily we have a reasonable public transport system running near our house and work which has not increased prices for a very long time . Beats the car any day! At 63 and counting . . . I get to be an old fart with impunity . I waited for this time to come . . and somehow I survived this long to make the youngsters hear all my old stories and tales of days of yore . Let's see . . . . "In MY day . . . when we made our wheels, they were all square . . and when they wore off the corners, we got new ones . " I hadda walk 11 miles each way to school . . . and both ways were up hill . I hadda get up before dawn, before the rest of the family, stoke the fire with fresh wood from the back of the house after I shoveled the snow from the front of the door, and then go down to the creek and break the ice just to rinse out my own diapers (NZ = Nappies) . We were so poor that my mom could only afford to buy me the top half of a suit and tie . I'd stand at the tall front window and the neighbors would say: "What a handsome young man, and look at how well his suit fits him!" Yeah . . . now WE had it tough! Not like today's milk-sopped young'uns .	SurferJoe46 (51)
662671	2008-04-30 07:27:00	I just drive in and pay for petrol whenever I get around to it, then I buy coke, and chips and all sorts of other unnecessary stuff, then I complain that everything costs too much as I plant the foot and hoon off down the road.	Twelvevolts (5457)
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