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Thread ID: 89579	2008-05-05 01:30:00	Govt buys back Rail Operations, what a waste of our money	robbyp (2751)	PC World Chat

Post ID	Timestamp	Content	User
666079	2008-05-06 23:30:00	2] NZ needs more people. Yes, that's right. Our low population is a luxury we might not be able to afford in the long term. The sad history of both commuter and freight rail in this country (not to mention many other commercial ventures) is partly a product of our low population. Our economy needs more people in it if we are to prosper. Realistically, these people will come from Asia. Well I agree with everything you have written Bruce. Especially about the bread in UK and bacon etc in America. But as to more people - no no no. Do you want to make us exactly the same as every other country - over crowded - no nature left. Massive inhumane cities. We are unique - and that is why most of us are here. It is the lack of population that is so enjoyable. I read a report some years ago that pointed out that if we wanted to be completely self contained and be able to produce all the food etc we needed and use the coal and gas we had then 1 000 000 was already way past the limit. The traffic jams in our cities etc has shown we have almost ruined the place already. Please we need fewer people to retain what must be one of the best places to live in the world. Tom	Thomas01 (317)
666080	2008-05-06 23:42:00	Don't get me wrong . I don't want more people . The negative results of it would not be nice . I just think we need it . Our economy is too small and our best and brightest leave for greener pastures . Our average wage suffers . Opportunity suffers . On a related note . Given the rise of the EU, and the projected rise of China and India as dominant economic forces, what we also need to do is be part of the AU - Asian Union . Us, Oz, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, and anyone else who fits the bill . One currency, free trade, freedom of movement and work . I tell you, the future for 4 million people in NZ by themselves isn't that great .	Biggles (121)
666081	2008-05-06 23:52:00	Don't get me wrong . I don't want more people . The negative results of it would not be nice . I just think we need it . Our economy is too small and our best and brightest leave for greener pastures . Our average wage suffers . Opportunity suffers . On a related note . Given the rise of the EU, and the projected rise of China and India as dominant economic forces, what we also need to do is be part of the AU - Asian Union . Us, Oz, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, and anyone else who fits the bill . One currency, free trade, freedom of movement and work . I tell you, the future for 4 million people in NZ by themselves isn't that great . Or maybe we just need to consolidate costs? NZ as an Aussie state anyone? I know it's cringe worthy, but financially it would make a lot of sense . Plus aussie train services are good, and they know about both bacon and coffee . P . S . France and Germany are just as bad on the bacon front, with a product (schinken in Germany) that's more of a mix between bacon, ham, and plastic .	Thebananamonkey (7741)
666082	2008-05-07 00:06:00	P.S. France and Germany are just as bad on the bacon front, with a product (schinken in Germany) that's more of a mix between bacon, ham, and plastic. I give bonus points to the UK for inventing the bacon butty and serving it still in cafes. Now that's civilisation.	Biggles (121)
666083	2008-05-07 00:08:00	It's a pity we have such a narrow gutted rail gauge otherwize we could put truck trailers on rail flat tops and transport stuff that way as they do in the US . This way we keep longhaul trucks off the road . Interestingly enough, trucks carry containers and rail carries containers . I am reasonably certain that all containers are the same width, just not the same length . So it stands to reason that if the truck decks and the rail decks are the same width then rail should be able to carry the trucks and/or trailers . Does that not sound reasonable? But it is not necessarily the railway gauge that limits the carrying capacity (in width) of the railway . The limiting factor is the loading gauge . Theoretically you should be able to carry any width (up to a point) but the loading gauge will limit the width and height because, mainly, of tunnels and lineside equipment . The latter can, and has, been moved and many tunnels have been "daylighted" to increase the loading gauge . The Auckland suburban lines are running second hand british carriages . They had their 4'8 . 5" bogies removed and replaced with 3'6" bogies . The width of the carriages appear little different from NZ built . A good example of loading gauge limiting what the railways can carry is the line out of Wellington . The loading gauge restrictions between Wellington and Paikakariki made it impossible to carry containers on that stretch of the line . As I understand it, trucks carried the containers to Paikakariki where they were transfered to waiting trains . Since then the floors of the many tunnels have been lowered and containers now run on that part of the line but I think that it is still a tight fit . So I'm not too certain that the gauge is the problem . Bruce: I too have spent time on railways overseas, Australia and Europe in particular and the experience has taught me that suburban passenger trains makes a lot of sense . Railways in Germany are well patronised . The suburban trains are well kept, swift and reliable . I'm certain it will happen here as well - eventually .	Roscoe (6288)
666084	2008-05-07 00:51:00	It's a pity we have such a narrow gutted rail gauge otherwize we could put truck trailers on rail flat tops and transport stuff that way as they do in the US. This way we keep longhaul trucks off the road. Interestingly enough, trucks carry containers and rail carries containers. I am reasonably certain that all containers are the same width, just not the same length. So it stands to reason that if the truck decks and the rail decks are the same width then rail should be able to carry the trucks and/or trailers. Does that not sound reasonable? It's not really a width or weight problem (a truck trailer to carry a container weighs about a ton, fully loaded coal cars weigh over 20 tons), but a height problem. I've seen trailers lashed to rail cars in NZ (it must've been a delivery), and boy was it high. Put a container on top of that, and you're asking for trouble (on the Main North Line (chch-blen) there are more tunnels than you would believe). Upgrading/modifying tunnels/bridges/all that would cost millions. Don't get me wrong, if we used US-style container cars, we might have a shot, but the cost of upgrading the rolling stock would be in the millions as well. Add the extra weight of 20 or so trailers to a train, and the emissions side of it isn't looking so good. If you get a dedicated container crane at rail depos, it takes all of 1 minute to move a container from a train to a truck trailer if you do it right (think Singapore ship yards, they know how to go like the clappers).	ubergeek85 (131)
666085	2008-05-07 02:07:00	on the Main North Line (chch-blen) there are more tunnels than you would believe . Know the line reasonably well . As you say, many tunnels . The most interesting, though, are the so-called "barrel tunnels . " No doubt you have seen them? For the uninitiated, "barrel tunnels" are tunnels that do not travel through anything but are built over the line to prevent débris (rocks and earth) from falling on the line . One such barrel tunnel, is about 70km south of Blenheim and stands very prominently beside the road . It would be about quarter of a kilometre long with many exhaust vents . It was a very spectacular sight with a steam engine passing through and with what seemed like tons of smoke pouring out of the vents . I imagine that they could lower the floors of the tunnels but as you say, Geekster, it would cost a penny or two and the government has spent all the railway money on buying it back!	Roscoe (6288)
666086	2008-05-07 02:14:00	To be honest, I've never heard the term barrel tunnel, but I've seen them, and they made perfect sense to me. And I consider myself a railfan!	ubergeek85 (131)
666087	2008-05-07 05:09:00	Let's just regauge to 4'8.5" before we embark on a hardware replacement program. Then instead of buying 2nd hand Perth stuff we could buy 2nd hand Sydney or Melbourne stuff..	paulw (1826)
666088	2008-05-07 05:57:00	To be honest, I've never heard the term barrel tunnel, but I've seen them, and they made perfect sense to me. And I consider myself a railfan! I must admit I had never heard of the term either until I read a book - can't recall the name - where they used that term to describe the tunnels. It was the story of the building of the line down the Kaikoura Coast. I am also a railfan, but perhaps not as dedicated as some. The same book described the not-so-strong bridges down that way that made it unsafe to take any locomotive heavier than an Ab (87 tons) down the line. These days the diesel-electric locomotives are much lighter. Chuff, Chuff.:cool:	Roscoe (6288)
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