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| Thread ID: 145580 | 2017-12-08 21:47:00 | Arc Welding - What to Buy | kahawai chaser (3545) | PC World Chat |
| Post ID | Timestamp | Content | User | ||
| 1443112 | 2017-12-09 20:11:00 | You could certainly make a very good case for a oxyacetylene set-up. I would recommend an old carbide acetylene generator to start with, although you would probably never be able to afford the safety gear that OSH would insist on you, and everyone within a 2 mile radius, wearing. :D One of these for those who have never risked life and limb using one. :) 8491 Getting the carbide these days might be a problem, although some of the caving clubs in NZ might still have a stash of it left over as its not that long ago that the switch to LED lighting happened. |
gary67 (56) | ||
| 1443113 | 2017-12-09 20:45:00 | Getting the carbide these days might be a problem, although some of the caving clubs in NZ might still have a stash of it left over as its not that long ago that the switch to LED lighting happened. Now that we're a state of China shouldn't be a problem. :D 8492 |
B.M. (505) | ||
| 1443114 | 2017-12-09 23:29:00 | OK start with a Mig - they seem dearer than arc. But I'll buy arc as wel (100 AMP maybe)l. Mig I assume is more cleaner and versatile - for a range of thickness and metal types. Perhaps able to do more finer/intricate welding. But Gas-less Mig more versatile than Gas based Mig? | kahawai chaser (3545) | ||
| 1443115 | 2017-12-10 05:19:00 | I kinda disagree ---- with an explanation from Rightsideup Land . . . . . . . If I had to learn to weld all over again - I'd buy a good non Chinese stick welder . 230 Amps is a good start and will suffice for almost everything except possibly ship building . The reason is this: 1 . You learn how to strike an arc - and learn respect for it! 2 . You learn how to keep an arc going - this will pay dividends in any electric welding for the rest of your life . 3 . Don't bother with oxy-acetylene welding until you learn how to put two metals together first! Oxy-acetylene is usually for cutting things apart - it's a serious waste of gasses to use it to weld . I learned to stick weld first before I joined the US Navy . It taught me a lot of considerations for the metal I was welding - like: flamefront propagation, puddle drag, arc patterns and respect for the heat . I tried my hand at some aluminum TIG and MIG, but it didn't impress me for the work that I liked to do . Wire welding was just coming IN as I left the US Navy, and I didn't really get involved with it until I had to weld thinner sheet metals and exhaust pipe that a 3/32" 7018 Lo-Hy rod would allow . I currently have an oxy-acetylene, a stick welder and a wire welder with- and without 75/25 CO2/Argon . When I need a deep, penetrating weld, the good old 'buzz box' is the way to go . I tend to only make wire welds to hold items together until I can get them welded with some 3/16" 6011 or 7018 . If I'm welding sheet metal - and that's kinda rare on a farm - I'll opt for the wire . So ---> I say get a 230 Amp stick welder, some assorted rod, a good welding helmet*, some really good gloves that go up almost to your elbows and wear cotton long sleeved, long pants outer wear . You will be able to weld wearing shorts later on . Much later on . * HUNTER comes to mind here In any kind of welding, never wear man made fabrics! Cotton and leather is the only way . After you drop a few pieces of slag that buzz around in your boot :eek: and long before you can get your boot off it finally cools off ---- :devil You learn to just IGNORE it ------- :( |
SurferJoe46 (51) | ||
| 1443116 | 2017-12-10 08:17:00 | I have no argument whatsoever with what you post Joe. But, the point that R2x1 and I have tried to make is you can’t just buy a Welder, any Welder, and be able to weld. Personally, I think, on reflection, that learning to Gas Weld is an excellent place to start. But then again, Trial & Error is a great teacher. Personally, I wish what I found out later, I'd found out first. :D |
B.M. (505) | ||
| 1443117 | 2017-12-10 10:26:00 | Resizing a wedding ring downward with an electric welder is awkward at best . Patching an old copper kettle with a mig is not for the faint-hearted, and expanding a new ring gear to go on a flywheel using an arc welder is likely to end badly . Welding a 4130 tube birdcage aircraft fuselage with a TIG system can certainly give strong and good looking welds, but the distortion removal needed to get the extremities in their correct position is very difficult to do without using a gas torch . (Gas welded tube fuselages are stress relieved and annealed as you go, with very little distortion even with flimsy jigs) Annealing aluminium, copper or brass sheet is not a trifling task with mig, tig or arc . Scale removal with the electric spark devices is pretty hard, as is grilling a steak . ;) Re-flowing solder with an arc welder may well lead to secondary problems, and drying your hat or gloves with electric welders is probably only possible for a very small number of welders . Thawing a car door lock really only suits one type of welder . Compared with oxy-acetylene in a small shop the other still immature processes are woefully restricted one trick ponies . (We wont go into which process makes the best balloon bombs . ) ;) Finally, using the welder to provide illumination in power cuts . . . |
R2x1 (4628) | ||
| 1443118 | 2017-12-10 15:50:00 | OK . . . . fire is medieval, fine for chasing the grave robber out of town with pitchforks and very long oxyacetylene hoses . Repairing a hull breech on The Titanic would use all the welding gas in Newcastle if you could keep the flame lit under water . Heating 200 feet of frozen water line in your paddock with a flame would work, but as you move to the next stretch of pipe, the ice will reform 6 inches behind you and your horses will hate you and not let you ride them next summer . Gas welding broken railroad track would take a long time and it's 8:00 PM, and the 8:05 is on schedule . Taking a broken axle stub out of a differential with a flame won't work on all levels of insanity . Chipping slag off a 90° gusset weld with 7018 is almost as awesome as sex, if memory serves me . Gas welding aluminum with a flame is nigh impossible waiting to see the weldmont turn cherry . Wet gloves, scarves and shoes can be dried rather handily if the child will allow you to put the ground clamp in their mouth and the stinger on a foot, using low Amperage of course so the authorities won't be able to accuse one of child abuse or endangerment . BBQing a steak . . . or a shank of mutton, is almost instantaneous . Overhead welding with a torch is easy . . . . . . if one can roll one's automobile onto its back to afford better positioning . No welding type of any kind is possible on printed circuit boards . I know from where I am speaking . No one was ever accused of being a pyromaniac whilst carrying welding rod . There's nothing like the hum of a 60 cycle transformer, early in the morning . |
SurferJoe46 (51) | ||
| 1443119 | 2017-12-10 19:26:00 | "Heating 200 feet of frozen . . . " Get 100 pairs of boots, and a similar quantity of wool socks . If your water line is frozen, heat is not the answer . Relocation to people friendly geography is the only sensible solution . Snow and ice are only appropriate for postcards . Hint, if they can grow wheat, beat the feet . Morning or night, a 60 cycle hum from a transformer indicates your stereo is stuck . Welding on PCBs is easy, but doing it electrically involves least carnage . It's a great use for serious capacitors . Gas welding broken railroad track would take a long time and it's 8:00 PM, and the 8:05 is on schedule . No hurry on this job, "On Schedule" for railroads involves a convoluted measure of time, and a tolerance of plus or minus two eclipses . It must be admitted that a burning transformer is more spectator friendly than a hose fire up by the bottles . |
R2x1 (4628) | ||
| 1443120 | 2017-12-11 05:45:00 | OK.... fire is medieval, fine for chasing the grave robber out of town with pitchforks and very long oxyacetylene hoses. Repairing a hull breech on The Titanic would use all the welding gas in Newcastle if you could keep the flame lit under water. Heating 200 feet of frozen water line in your paddock with a flame would work, but as you move to the next stretch of pipe, the ice will reform 6 inches behind you and your horses will hate you and not let you ride them next summer. Gas welding broken railroad track would take a long time and it's 8:00 PM, and the 8:05 is on schedule. Taking a broken axle stub out of a differential with a flame won't work on all levels of insanity. Chipping slag off a 90° gusset weld with 7018 is almost as awesome as sex, if memory serves me. Gas welding aluminum with a flame is nigh impossible waiting to see the weldmont turn cherry. Wet gloves, scarves and shoes can be dried rather handily if the child will allow you to put the ground clamp in their mouth and the stinger on a foot, using low Amperage of course so the authorities won't be able to accuse one of child abuse or endangerment. BBQing a steak ... or a shank of mutton, is almost instantaneous. Overhead welding with a torch is easy...... if one can roll one's automobile onto its back to afford better positioning. No welding type of any kind is possible on printed circuit boards. I know from where I am speaking. No one was ever accused of being a pyromaniac whilst carrying welding rod. There's nothing like the hum of a 60 cycle transformer, early in the morning. 50 Hertz in the real world 240 volts. |
prefect (6291) | ||
| 1443121 | 2017-12-11 08:50:00 | OK start with a Mig - they seem dearer than arc. But I'll buy arc as wel (100 AMP maybe)l. Mig I assume is more cleaner and versatile - for a range of thickness and metal types. Perhaps able to do more finer/intricate welding. But Gas-less Mig more versatile than Gas based Mig? sorry i didn't see this thread before, i was to busy welding ! i'm sort of in the same boat, learning to weld etc. couple of things, gas is a right pain. any gas, Oxy-acetylene, mig gas, tig gas. you either get disposable bottles which have stuff all gas, which makes it expensive or pay rental for big bottles. rental is fine if you use it constantly, not so good for those who do not use it much. most welders i spoke to said to start with old fashion arc welding. a little harder but teaches you a lot of things. the odds are your probably only going to use general purpose rods which are very easy to use. migs have the issue that its easy to do good looking bad welds. for structural work your better off with arc or tig. cost of self shielded mig wire is not to bad. certain beats the cost of gas. however gas does a far better job if your use the right gas. that can be a problem as there are a wide range of gases for different steels etc. one of the advantages of arc is you can buy a pack of specialist rods and keep them handy for next time. mig is not for fine intricate welding. gasless mig is even worse. for fine intricate welding tig is the way to go. what you can get these days is multi process welders. ie mig, stick (mma) and tig. so you can learn all 3 and do whatever suits. boc have a deal on them at the moment (even does mig pulse for aluminum mig welding.) also i think bunnings has one tho i don't know much on it. amps, 100 is really small. keep in mind that the quoted max amps you don't want to be using. if you need to use 100 amps get a 140 amp or bigger machine. don't forget about power source. for any decent home welder you will need a 15 amp outlet and wiring to suit. |
tweak'e (69) | ||
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